everyone is a victim. everyone...but not everybody see themselves that way, ashley

it couldn't exist any other way.

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quote:

Originally posted by ******** Last little topic of discussion for this forum - I won't be adding to it or answering questions or personal attacks in this thread. But felt I would leave a topic of discussion. What is the result of a world where people must pay to do anything? Should the wealthy be able to opt who can act and who cannot do things? What about a world where only the government can say what is allowable and isn't. I'm not talking crime vs legal acts, but in the very common processes such as having freedom of movement. People being confined or assigned to an area. An urban prison, wage slavery, or forced servitude? Where is the choice in life, where are the options provided to the masses, whether financial or statist elitism, why has the common person been deprived of so many of their rights? Why is it such a violent world, one where people are deprived of basic things like food shelter or movement? There are places of plenty, bountful capacities, be it parking spots, food crops, or water sources, yet people are deprived access to things that otherwise are plentiful. Why is the world so authoritarian and restricted, it is mind numbing - considering that only some people get to benifit while so many others have no capacitization. Why is the world so morally corrupted?

I'v noticed you think many things are "unlimited".

EDIT: you'll be back..

Yeah seriously ********..You need to learn that things have a cost. Factories, cars, homes, groceries...These are not natural resources with an infinite supply. They didn't fall from the heavens for everyone to enjoy and take what they wish without effort or payment. These things only exist due to the idea of private property. If we lived in a society that didn't respect property rights, you would quickly lose all of the things you take for granted as your "rights"..since the environment that enabled them to be created no longer exists.

There are a lot of problems in our world, a lot of faults, limitations, wrongs, ignorance, selfishness, apathy, narcissism, and so on. A lot of things touch me negatively on almost daily basis, I am living through it.

It has a lot to do with the human spirit. We are very selfish creatures, looking out to do whats best for us and trying to spread out to others our ways of things, sometimes by force. Then there's male domination and control, desires, regrets, and other human characteristics.

Thats why I think humanity will decline, because we have yet to establish an effective system to address the most important things for our human spirit, for environment and for the future. That is the core of many problems today. Capitalism is only degrading us as human beings, turning us into something totally unnatural, and moving us further away from the natural order of things.

I have a lot of respect for *true* native peoples around the world (not the Canadian First Nation peoples - most of them have lost touch with Earth, reality and their spiritual selves), there are very few of them. But they understand a lot of the important things, spirituality and social bonding, more Earthly lifestyle.

Humans may be modernizing, but I think we are regressing as beings. Its a negative thing in the long run.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

I think most people have already sufficiently answered the original question, aside from mentioning that without the need to pay for things, most progress wouldn't exist, either. Do you think people would slave away creating the technology & products that make your life more enjoyable if they could have the same life (or better) without doing that work?

I also find it dumbfounding that anyone would argue that there are plentiful quantities of the things that were listed. Come to New York and tell me about the abundance of parking spaces. Or go to the desert and tell me about those plentiful water sources.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium There are a lot of problems in our world, a lot of faults, limitations, wrongs, ignorance, selfishness, apathy, narcissism, and so on. A lot of things touch me negatively on almost daily basis, I am living through it. It has a lot to do with the human spirit. We are very selfish creatures, looking out to do whats best for us and trying to spread out to others our ways of things, sometimes by force. Then there's male domination and control, desires, regrets, and other human characteristics. Thats why I think humanity will decline, because we have yet to establish an effective system to address the most important things for our human spirit, for environment and for the future. That is the core of many problems today. Capitalism is only degrading us as human beings, turning us into something totally unnatural, and moving us further away from the natural order of things. I have a lot of respect for *true* native peoples around the world (not the Canadian First Nation peoples - most of them have lost touch with Earth, reality and their spiritual selves), there are very few of them. But they understand a lot of the important things, spirituality and social bonding, more Earthly lifestyle. Humans may be modernizing, but I think we are regressing as beings. Its a negative thing in the long run.

Do you think that people 100, 200, 500 or even thousands of years ago were less selfish, ignorant, or narcissistic? If not, why would you think that humanity will decline?

All of the empires in world history were created because of those emotions, yet the I don't think many would argue that humanity has declined since the days of Alexander, Caesar, or even Napoleon. Why would you think that the decline would start now (or started recently)?

___________________
"Go back to bed america your government is in control
Here's American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it,
Watch these picturary retards bang their fuckin' skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom,
Here you go America you are free to do as we tell you
We want your soul
Your cash, your house, your phone, your cash, your house, your life" -Adam Freeland - We Want Your Soul

quote:

Originally posted by Groundhog Boy Do you think that people 100, 200, 500 or even thousands of years ago were less selfish, ignorant, or narcissistic? If not, why would you think that humanity will decline? All of the empires in world history were created because of those emotions, yet the I don't think many would argue that humanity has declined since the days of Alexander, Caesar, or even Napoleon. Why would you think that the decline would start now (or started recently)?

Humans are changing, with help of technology and developments in society. I think we are losing touch with our spiritual side and the environment. One day we will be automated creatures plugged into computers, less human.

I am not talking about humans declining in numbers or in terms of the complexity of our society, or whatever you may want to call it, its just we are changing dramatically, and these changes may bring about negative consequences. Becoming entangled in materialism, we are living further apart from each other (despite the technology), spending more time working and living in "small boxes", sitting all day at the computer, TV, work screen. Materialism is a foreign thing to humans, we have traditionally lived closer and more helpful to other people, built independent communities, close-knit, not living for accumulation of personal wealth and goods (greed was discouraged because it threatened the stability of the family). The family itself has taken a bit hit, there are fewer functional families and marriages - people just want to have fun or work is more important.

People will not be able to survive without their supermarkets, television, beer, chapstick and countless prescriptions. More addicted, more dependent on the society, heck - we are not even taught in schools how to treat other people properly, humanity, but rather taught competition, ignorance, so on. Schools indoctrinates into people living in this system, society, being more successful in it. Well, why not, right?

I just think that these and other problems mentioned will exacerbate into radical changes in the next 2-3 centuries for us - not in a positive way. This is not sustainable living, and we are further disconnected from other people, and from ourselves. I think we have built technology and system way too sophisticated and dangerous and we haven't learned how to use it all properly (for example - the concept of sustainability). Its like giving matches to children, so to speak. I may sound weird on this, but look at the world around us. Its not sustainable living, we are facing with serious issues driven by population explosion, and still threatened with such problems like pollution, environmental damage / decline, weapons of mass destruction (all kinds, including millions of weapons of killing - we are becoming more efficient at it), etc.

Bridging the world community, coupled with technology is also helping the rise of a massive surveillance and censorship system, where media and information is better controlled and disseminated (this has been well established by Noam Chomsky). One world government may one day result in the most enduring and oppressive authoritarian regime ever devised, with no foreign force being able to topple it or influence its demise.

I am rambling, I may write up a paper on this sometime, because I think its important to assess the situation and see if humanity is drifting closer to its demise than progress.

Anyways, you may take whats being said with the grain of salt, but my point is that there's something in the air, not a sign of change, but signs of our demise. We are not dealing effectively with the threats to our future and our human well-being.

Some of what I've said is maybe stupid, crazy, or insightful - they are mostly just general ideas and perhaps even assumptions. One should just only reflect on the changes we are facing, challenges, threats to our way of life, look deep inside ourselves.

People are asking these questions for a reason, not because we are bored or because we are already doomed. There are some serious issues, and we humans have a bad habit for ignoring things and repeating our mistakes.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

Last edited by Magnetonium on Jun-28-2009 at 01:09

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Humans are changing, with help of technology and developments in society. I think we are losing touch with our spiritual side and the environment. One day we will be automated creatures plugged into computers, less human.

What are humans without the help of technology? If we didnt have our brains which allowed us to make fire and clubs (and other basic tools) we probably would of died off long long ago.

It's not what happens or what the situation is, it's all in how you deal with it. gnite.

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by saluyamo What are humans without the help of technology? If we didnt have our brains which allowed us to make fire and clubs (and other basic tools) we probably would of died off long long ago.

And what are humans with the help of too much technology? We can quite easily become slaves to our own devices. Perhaps this century we will find out the outcome (or consequences) of having too much technology with so little of the spiritual and moral mindsets to best utilize it.