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avikonen
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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: Manhattan
Sty Town is getting sold!

I'm surprised how little press this has gotten:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/30/n...&pagewanted=all

110-Building Site in N.Y. Is Put Up for Sale


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By CHARLES V. BAGLI and JANNY SCOTT
Published: August 30, 2006

Metropolitan Life is putting Stuyvesant Town and Peter Cooper Village — a stretch of 110 apartment buildings along the East River — on the auction block.
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The sale of Stuyvesant Town and Peter Cooper Village, shown in 1947, would transform a complex built for World War II veterans.
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Graphic: The Big Deal

With a target price of nearly $5 billion, the sale would be the biggest deal for a single American property in modern times. It would undoubtedly transform what has been an affordable, leafy redoubt for generations of Manhattan’s middle class: teachers and nurses, firefighters and police officers, office clerks and construction workers.

MetLife, one of the largest life insurers in North America, said in July that it might sell the two complexes, which it built nearly 60 years ago with government help. It has hired a broker, who started registering bidders last week for the 80-acre property along First Avenue between 14th and 23rd Streets.

Behind the scenes, the sale has already drawn interest from dozens of prospective buyers, including New York’s top real estate families, pension funds, international investment banks and investors from Dubai, according to real estate executives, even though the marketing book will not be released to bidders until next week.

The deal is likely to lead to profound changes for many of the 25,000 residents of the two complexes, where two-thirds of the apartments have regulated rents at roughly half the market rate. Any new owner paying the equivalent of $450,000 per apartment is going to be eager to create a money-making luxury enclave, real estate executives say.

The sale would only add to the seismic cultural shifts already under way in New York City and especially in Manhattan, where soaring housing costs have made the borough increasingly inhospitable to working-class and middle-class residents. It would be another challenge to Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg’s effort to stabilize and expand the number of affordable apartments in the city.

“It’s really sad,” said Suzanne Wasserman, a historian and filmmaker who has lived in Stuyvesant Town since 1989. “New York has always attracted people who aren’t just interested in money — people interested in culture and poetry and music and dance and those young people who are the creative capital of the city. They aren’t going to have a place here and probably really don’t already. I think it affects everything about city life.”

Rumors of an impending sale began circulating among residents several years ago when MetLife was in the midst of $300 million in upgrades that included new landscaping and playgrounds, spruced-up fountains, new wiring, air conditioning, carpeting and lights. Rose Associates took over management three years ago.

At the same time, MetLife sought to oust tenants not listed on leases. And as rents for more apartments hit the legal threshold of $2,000 a month, MetLife has been able to charge new tenants market rates for those apartments when they became vacant. Under that threshold, the rent stabilization law limits increases to a fixed percentage each year for about a million apartments. About 27 percent of the tenants at Peter Cooper and Stuyvesant Town are now exempt from it and pay market rents.

But most, like Marilyn Phillips, 52, a nurse who has lived in Stuyvesant Town for 14 years, pay stabilized rents. She and her husband, a social worker, pay $1,700 a month for a two-bedroom apartment. News of the sale worried her. “It may mean we may no longer be able to live here,” she said. “The management is intent on making this luxury apartments and driving the working class out.”

MetLife and real estate investors view the sale far differently.

“It’ll be the largest sale of a single property in U.S. history,” said Dan Fasulo of Real Capital Analytics, a real estate research and consulting firm. “No doubt in my mind. It’s truly an unprecedented offering and an irreplaceable property. It would be impossible today to get a property of that scale in an urban location. And that neighborhood has become so desirable.”

Stuyvesant Town and Peter Cooper Village together are nearly as large as the biggest single residential development in the country: Co-op City in the Bronx, which has 15,372 units in 35 towers and 236 two-family houses. The MetLife land itself is about one-tenth the size of Central Park.

To market the properties, MetLife has hired Darcy Stacom, a broker at CB Richard Ellis. According to real estate executives, the company began registering potential bidders last week, telling them that MetLife hoped to select a winner by November.

The company reserves the right not to sell if the offers fall short, but Robert Merck, who oversees real estate investments for MetLife, said, “We think the current market conditions are very favorable.”

Already there are signs that bidding will be feverish. As one executive involved in the sale put it, “This is the ego dream of the world: 80 acres, 110 buildings, 11,000 apartments, covering 10 city blocks in Manhattan.”

According to several bidders, the list of buyers who have signed up includes the most active developer in New York City, the Related Companies; one of the largest landlords, Glenwood Management; Tishman Speyer, which controls Rockefeller Center; two publicly traded real estate companies, Archstone and Vornado; the international bank UBS; and the Blackstone investment firm, as well as the Rudin, Durst and LeFrak real estate families.

Given the size of the deal, buyers are expected to team up. ”You’ll see some interesting people stepping up to the plate for this one,” said William Rudin, whose family owns about 2,000 apartments in New York.

This is the latest big transaction for MetLife. Last year the insurer sold its landmark tower at 1 Madison Avenue and the skyscraper at 200 Park Avenue, the former Pan Am building, for more than $2.6 billion. But it is not getting out of the real estate business. It has a $40 billion portfolio of properties around the globe. But its presence in New York City is far smaller today than when its headquarters, with its signature clock tower, lorded over Madison Avenue.

The company played a major civic role in the last century, building and running vast housing complexes like Parkchester in the Bronx and Riverton in Harlem, as well as Peter Cooper and Stuyvesant Town. Parkchester and Riverton were sold long ago.

At the urging of the public works czar Robert Moses, MetLife built Stuyvesant Town and its slightly more affluent sister, Peter Cooper Village, in 1947, as housing for returning veterans where the city’s Gashouse District once stood. The company excluded blacks and unmarried people at first, until protests and lawsuits in the 1950’s and 60’s forced it to drop the barriers.

The city acquired some of the land for the project through eminent domain and gave MetLife all the streets in the 18-block area. The city also froze property taxes for 25 years at the value of the land before redevelopment, according to Samuel Zipp, a historian who wrote his Ph.D. dissertation on urban renewal in New York City.

Mr. Zipp, a visiting assistant professor of history at the University of California at Irvine, said that Stuyvesant Town and Peter Cooper Village served as a kind of urban Levittown, an early model for a new sort of city landscape that inspired later efforts in the 1950’s and 1960’s aimed at keeping city life affordable to the middle class. Among them was Lefrak City, a complex of 20 18-story buildings on 40 acres in Corona, Queens.

Stuyvesant Town and Peter Cooper are already undergoing great changes. Older residents are dying off. Young well-heeled professionals are willing to pay the higher rents. There are students from New York University — here one year, gone the next. There are fewer families and more single people, some of them subdividing one-bedroom apartments with partitions. A seven-story banner hanging down the side of a building on 14th Street announces, “Luxury rentals.”

Old traditions are also disappearing. The corny Christmas music and antiquated ornaments are gone, said Ms. Wasserman, the filmmaker who moved into Stuyvesant Town with her husband and son. Gone, too, is what she used to call the “friendly fascism” of the place: rules against playing on the grass, against sunbathing, against eating in the playgrounds, against running through sprinklers without shoes.

“It’s becoming two different communities here — those that have the rent stabilization and those that don’t,” said David Weiss, a 34-year-old writer who lives in a rent-stabilized one-bedroom apartment with his wife and young son. The turnover among new arrivals is so high, he said, “My wife and I kind of joke that when we make friends with people we’ll ask if they’re in a rent-stabilized apartment.”

Still, about 8,000 apartments remain under the city’s rent stabilization system. Even three-bedroom apartments remain in the hands of longtime residents still paying well under $2,000 a month.

Investors will want a return. “They have to raise the rents or convert it to a condo,” said Leonard Grunstein, a lawyer who specializes in deals involving multifamily affordable housing. “Either event removes this as affordable housing stock. If this were removed, there are probably 22,000 workers who live there, most are two-family incomes, probably 15,000 employees are there. Where are they going to go?”

Real estate executives are already poring over demographic information about the current tenants and considering long-term strategies, such as turning Peter Cooper Village into a condominium complex. That development sits on a rectangular piece of land bisected by a private road and the 3,000 apartments there tend to be larger, with more than one bathroom.

In interviews yesterday, some older tenants living in rent-stabilized apartments said they were not worried about being priced out of their homes right away. “I’m not really that concerned about it,” said Elliott Landen, 77, who said he pays slightly over $1,000 a month for a one-bedroom apartment. “I don’t think they’ll throw me out.”

But many said the people who will suffer most will be younger tenants holding out hope of raising children in Manhattan. One man, a 42-year-old computer programmer, said he and his wife had given up their rent stabilized one-bedroom unit in Stuyvesant Town when their daughter was born and had moved into a market-rate two-bedroom. He said he figured that in about two years his family would “wind up in the suburbs.”

“We’re at about $1,400 now,” said a woman named Evelyn, who declined to give her last name but described herself as a 77-year-old retired teacher who has lived with her husband in a three-bedroom apartment in Stuyvesant Town for 43 years. “If we die, whoever comes in will pay $3,500 or $4,000. This used to be a nice middle-income place. It’s no longer that.”

Anthony Ramirez contributed reporting for this article.

Old Post Aug-30-2006 18:04 
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barosoap
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Oct 2002
Location: New York, NY

OMG, I haven't even read the entire article yet but I'm seeing $$ for our rent already

Old Post Aug-30-2006 18:06  United States
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Groundhog Boy
Stupidity Offends Me



Registered: May 2005
Location: New York, NY

quote:
Originally posted by barosoap
OMG, I haven't even read the entire article yet but I'm seeing $$ for our rent already

Yeah, this might suck, A LOT...


___________________
"Go back to bed america your government is in control
Here's American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it,
Watch these picturary retards bang their fuckin' skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom,
Here you go America you are free to do as we tell you
We want your soul
Your cash, your house, your phone, your cash, your house, your life" -Adam Freeland - We Want Your Soul

Old Post Aug-30-2006 18:13  United States
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barosoap
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Oct 2002
Location: New York, NY

On the plus side the new management company might not suck as much as Met Life. We're already paying the "luxury" rent anyway, and if all the apts get converted maybe we'll bear less of the burden of the rent-stabalized apts.

Old Post Aug-30-2006 18:17  United States
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fotoaddict
Senior tranceaddict



Registered: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States

quote:
Originally posted by barosoap
On the plus side the new management company might not suck as much as Met Life. We're already paying the "luxury" rent anyway, and if all the apts get converted maybe we'll bear less of the burden of the rent-stabalized apts.


wow.. someone gets it..

keep in mind.. simply selling stuy-town to someone else doesn't get rid of the existing rent control.. that's grandfathered in (by current law) until the apartment gets to 2000 a month (regardless of size) and flips out of the current chain of sucession (i.e. same people or children)..

It does open it up to being converted to condos.. which is messy.. rent controlled people would (generally) get a discount of some potentially huge amount. of course, there are a lot of people here (i live in stuy as well), and they're some of the loudest proponents of rent control in the country.. So anything that could/would happen will be extremely slow.. outside of the actual sale itself..

if you're up for some real education on the matter though, read this:

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-274.html

It's a few pages long, and goes through all the different aspects regarding the multi facited complications due to rent control, and how in the end it hurts the general society as a whole.

I'm in a market rate 3br by the way.. and I know we pay about 2.5 times what the lawyer below us pays.. he's in a rent controlled apt that he worked his way into before they started doing the market rate thing.. and he makes probably in the 500+k a year range.. partner at a big firm.. how's that fair? and please don't say he's the exception to a good rule.. I know of many to many exceptions for that to be the case..

-Peter


___________________
ATB, Above & Beyond, Richie Hawtin, Ferry Corsten, Armin van Buuren, Paul van Dyk, Rank1, ...
Pacha, Cielo, Studio/Crobar, Sullivan Room, loft parties, Buffalo, Toronto, Ibiza, Miami...
That's some of the plan for the summer.. If you've got a great event, and want some awesome pictures, call me..

My Photos Here

Old Post Aug-30-2006 19:17  United States
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Groundhog Boy
Stupidity Offends Me



Registered: May 2005
Location: New York, NY

quote:
Originally posted by fotoaddict

Are you on the Stuy Town Tenant's Forum? I haven't checked in there in a month or so because some of the regulars are really annoying (mostly RS people bitching about minute things compared to what the MR tenants are dealing with), but this potential sale is starting some conversation over there lately. Apparently some people had already heard rumors a few weeks ago, so they'd already been discussing.


___________________
"Go back to bed america your government is in control
Here's American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it,
Watch these picturary retards bang their fuckin' skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom,
Here you go America you are free to do as we tell you
We want your soul
Your cash, your house, your phone, your cash, your house, your life" -Adam Freeland - We Want Your Soul

Old Post Aug-30-2006 19:30  United States
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Konijn
Subverting Paradigms



Registered: Feb 2003
Location: New York City

quote:
Originally posted by fotoaddict


if you're up for some real education on the matter though, read this:

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-274.html

It's a few pages long, and goes through all the different aspects regarding the multi facited complications due to rent control, and how in the end it hurts the general society as a whole.

I'm in a market rate 3br by the way.. and I know we pay about 2.5 times what the lawyer below us pays.. he's in a rent controlled apt that he worked his way into before they started doing the market rate thing.. and he makes probably in the 500+k a year range.. partner at a big firm.. how's that fair? and please don't say he's the exception to a good rule.. I know of many to many exceptions for that to be the case..

-Peter


of course the cato institute will argue for the elimination of rent control; i can trot out pieces by brookings that argue the exact opposite.

the truth is that the majority of people currently on rent control are people who need it; for every lawyer or celebrity you read about in the Post taking advantage of rent control laws there are many dozens of people for whom it's vital and necessary.

the chipping away of rent control and the refusal the alter the (currently) preposterous 2000$ limit is simply a sign of the times.
the shuttling of SROs, the creeping of gentrification into every square inch of every borough, and the rezoning, selling, and privatizing of publicly held tracts are a central cause of the bland dump the city has become. maybe this issue will be addressed when the city's civil servants can no longer meet housing requirements.

i for one miss the days when i could run into actual new yorkers walking, drinking, eating, and enjoying life in the 4 boroughs (tourists from upstate and jersey don't count -- and staten is the next stop for gentrifiers). i grew up in bay ridge, a working class bastion, and everytime i go back to visit my family, the changes are striking. i secretly wish someone would roll down alphabet city, orchard st or bedford ave. with a fucking flamethrower...

the sad irony is that all these asshats from the midwest and the west coast that come to nyc in search of grittiness, excitement, and authenticity are contributing to their own banality. after they've spent they're 20s and 30s helping price the middle class out of the city, they'll be off into the wilderness of suburbia, raising kids and getting old, and leaving nothing but a disneyfied mess and a shit housing market in their wake.

and then we'll do it all over again, as nyc has, since its founding, been mired in both terrible housing markets and the lovely cycles of creative destruction...

/rant over


___________________
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Old Post Aug-30-2006 19:46  Greece
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fotoaddict
Senior tranceaddict



Registered: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States

quote:
Originally posted by Groundhog Boy
Are you on the Stuy Town Tenant's Forum? I haven't checked in there in a month or so because some of the regulars are really annoying (mostly RS people bitching about minute things compared to what the MR tenants are dealing with), but this potential sale is starting some conversation over there lately. Apparently some people had already heard rumors a few weeks ago, so they'd already been discussing.


just read it now.. damn rainy day off..

looks like (no legal experts in there.. but.. ) it takes 15% approval to get a conversion to condos.. probably 15-20% of the apts now are MR.. and they can legally bribe, i mean incent.., RC/RS people to go for it..

so grandma with the 1400 a month 3 bedroom could get a 100k check to approve the conversion in theory.. would buy her a condo somewhere in the path of the next hurricane in FL, but she'd get the better weather in the mean time..

In the end, dropping 12k condo apts on the ny market could actually lower the average sale price.. avg of 500k per apt (less for 1br, more for 3br..? ) that would be 6bil.. profit of 1bil for the flipper.. sure it would take years, but that's still a good deal for them.. while people would see apartments on the market at 1/2 what the "average apt sold for so far this year" (1.3 million)..

I'd welcome it to be honest.. but i've read a lot of the economics behind it and understand how distorted rc/rs makes the market.. the bipolar rents for the same apt is absurd.. and right now I'm overpaying for a 3br.. and we had to get a third and forth roommate to cover this place, because the original 2 of us (who wanted a 2br instead of the 3 we have now) couldn't afford a 2br.. post conversion, or if RC/RS didn't exist, the 2 of us could have afforded what the 2br here would cost in an unregulated market..

any other TA's in this pcvst?

-Peter


___________________
ATB, Above & Beyond, Richie Hawtin, Ferry Corsten, Armin van Buuren, Paul van Dyk, Rank1, ...
Pacha, Cielo, Studio/Crobar, Sullivan Room, loft parties, Buffalo, Toronto, Ibiza, Miami...
That's some of the plan for the summer.. If you've got a great event, and want some awesome pictures, call me..

My Photos Here

Old Post Aug-30-2006 19:57  United States
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Groundhog Boy
Stupidity Offends Me



Registered: May 2005
Location: New York, NY

quote:
Originally posted by Konijn
the truth is that the majority of people currently on rent control are people who need it; for every lawyer or celebrity you read about in the Post taking advantage of rent control laws there are many dozens of people for whom it's vital and necessary.

Oh really... and exactly why should I have to pay 2x as much as my next door neighbor, simply because she's rent controlled and moved in a few years before me? I suppose I don't need a lower rent rate.


___________________
"Go back to bed america your government is in control
Here's American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it,
Watch these picturary retards bang their fuckin' skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom,
Here you go America you are free to do as we tell you
We want your soul
Your cash, your house, your phone, your cash, your house, your life" -Adam Freeland - We Want Your Soul

Old Post Aug-30-2006 20:10  United States
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verndogs
GET THE TANK!



Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Sports Discussion Forum - NYC

quote:
Originally posted by Konijn
i secretly wish someone would roll down alphabet city, orchard st or bedford ave. with a fucking flamethrower...


i'll take the current form of alphabet city over what I had to grow up next to back in the 80s and early 90s: squatters, abandoned buildings, knowing i can't play in Tompkins Square Park at all because it was nothing more than a homeless shanty town

as for the lower east side, I never thought I'd live to see the day I can hang out in that area during daytime without fearing for my life


___________________

quote:
[11:58] Bas //: fuck he's hot

Old Post Aug-30-2006 20:22  Philippines
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EarnYourKeep
LIT



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: twentyonetwo

quote:
Originally posted by Groundhog Boy
Oh really... and exactly why should I have to pay 2x as much as my next door neighbor, simply because she's rent controlled and moved in a few years before me? I suppose I don't need a lower rent rate.


maybe she's 80 yrs old and don't have a job?

and 100K to buy out [aka bribe] is a bit much...as a property owner in manhattan, I can say 20-40K at max. although it is a 3br i wouldn't think it'd break 75K.


___________________
I PUT TRADEMARKS AROUND YO MOTHAFUCKIN EYE
JUST ME N YOU

Old Post Aug-30-2006 20:23 
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fotoaddict
Senior tranceaddict



Registered: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States

quote:
Originally posted by Konijn
of course the cato institute will argue for the elimination of rent control; i can trot out pieces by brookings that argue the exact opposite.

/rant over


ok, not everyone likes cato.. how about these..

http://www.city-journal.org/article01.php?aid=1616

http://www.economics.harvard.edu/hi...ol%20work%3F%22

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/...nt_controls.htm

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/RentControl.html

http://www.pkarchive.org/column/6700.html

http://freedomkeys.com/pricecontrols7.htm

not trying to make TA into a social political rant, but any form of economic price control (which rent control is a form of) has a negative net effect on a capitalist society. If you want to make the pro socialism argument, I enjoy a good daytime debate (i.e. not at 4am in the dance floor.. )

fact is though, we live in a society based (originally at least) on individual rights and capitalism. if you want to change that, go ahead, it's within your rights to try (at least until bush decides otherwise).. but as long as capitalism is still the basic rule, programs such as rent control hurt/unfairly tax more than they help.

trott please.. I'd love to read an educated argument to the other side of the debate. please though, find something with research behind it, and not just someone ranting about how much their individual rent would go up.

quote:
Originally posted by Groundhog Boy
Oh really... and exactly why should I have to pay 2x as much as my next door neighbor, simply because she's rent controlled and moved in a few years before me? I suppose I don't need a lower rent rate.


Exactly.. and why should a set of grandparents stay in a 3 bedroom apt for 1400 a month many years after the kids moved out (and they no longer need that much space) while I'm splitting the same 3br for 3x as much with 4 people. We end up overpaying for the same space they're underpaying for simply because we're younger. and considering younger folks generally make less than their older counterparts (not retired..) how does that make sense?

gentrification isn't great.. but the rules which try (poorly) to prevent it are worse.

-Peter


___________________
ATB, Above & Beyond, Richie Hawtin, Ferry Corsten, Armin van Buuren, Paul van Dyk, Rank1, ...
Pacha, Cielo, Studio/Crobar, Sullivan Room, loft parties, Buffalo, Toronto, Ibiza, Miami...
That's some of the plan for the summer.. If you've got a great event, and want some awesome pictures, call me..

My Photos Here

Last edited by fotoaddict on Aug-30-2006 at 20:34

Old Post Aug-30-2006 20:25  United States
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TranceAddict Forums > Local Scene Info / Discussion / EDM Event Listings > USA > USA - New York > Sty Town is getting sold!
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