So, we know that at the time of the invasion, baathist controlled Iraq considered Kuwait an extension of its own nation. Its seems very hazy as what led to the chain of events that eventually caused a massive UN endorsed coalition effort to safe the otherwise inconspicous arab gulf state. We know the intent; Iraq wanted Kuwait. Saddam, immoralized from the attrition encounters in the Iran-Iraq war, was determined to up his "alpha" status amongst the international community by pursuing what he considered at the time to be the "mother of all battles". The Baathist's main defense for the unjust invasion of the tiny gulf state was dthe accusition of slant drilling, especially near the island of Bubiyan.

anyways, I'd like to hear your thoughts, cheers.

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Iraq owed Kuwait A LOT in war debt and it was the easy way out. Saddam did not expect the international reaction, and made the same mistake in 2002 in calling Bush's bluff, which wasn't really a bluff.

I beg to differ...

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Yep Iraq was in deep debts coming out of the iran war, the easiest way out was to get the rich Kuwaiti fields.

Plus wasn't Kuwait actually part of Iraq before the British colonial rule and later partition?

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Originally posted by malek Yep Iraq was in deep debts coming out of the iran war, the easiest way out was to get the rich Kuwaiti fields. Plus wasn't Kuwait actually part of Iraq before the British colonial rule and later partition?

Think its a bit more complicated than that in a sense that it was an autonomous region attached to southern Iraq, Basra or something. In any case they did support Iraq monetarily and with materials just like the US, Russians, Chinese and everyone else did at the time to kill lots of Iranians, but after some 10's of billions (think it was somewhere between 60-80 Billion) loaned to Saddam that he didn't want to pay it back to Kuwait... things got violent as a way of nullifying the debt.

People have fluffed up the whole thing with various reasons as to 'why' the last Iraq invasion happened but its really only ever been based on half truths and political, westernised opinions at best. The only real reason I see that has stood up to any kind of scrutiny is 'Oil'
If there was no oil, Iraq would simply be another Somalia with no net worth, which no one cares about in the developed world as long as it stays off the news and they're not paying $10 a litre for petrol. At best it would have been just another dumping ground for the US, Russia and China to offload their surplus, superseded weaponry like they do in Africa and anywhere else they can get away with semi-legitimately to raise some money.

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Originally posted by Lilith Think its a bit more complicated than that in a sense that it was an autonomous region attached to southern Iraq, Basra or something. In any case they did support Iraq monetarily and with materials just like the US, Russians, Chinese and everyone else did at the time to kill lots of Iranians, but after some 10's of billions (think it was somewhere between 60-80 Billion) loaned to Saddam that he didn't want to pay it back to Kuwait... things got violent as a way of nullifying the debt. People have fluffed up the whole thing with various reasons as to 'why' the last Iraq invasion happened but its really only ever been based on half truths and political, westernised opinions at best. The only real reason I see that has stood up to any kind of scrutiny is 'Oil' If there was no oil, Iraq would simply be another Somalia with no net worth, which no one cares about in the developed world as long as it stays off the news and they're not paying $10 a litre for petrol. At best it would have been just another dumping ground for the US, Russia and China to offload their surplus, superseded weaponry like they do in Africa and anywhere else they can get away with semi-legitimately to raise some money.

I agree with you for the most part. But then I always come back to one question that confuses me. If they were desperate for just oil why arent they drilling here when they dont have to go to war to get it? War is the uncommon factor in this situation. Who profits from war? The military industrial complex sure does. The central banks who profit off of the endless war loans sure make a profit. And last but not least, the federal government profits. As long as there is a boogie man, the uneducated masses are much more willing to trade in their rights for the secure umbrella of the government even though they will have neither in the end. In the USA homeland security and the patriot act were both passed to protect people from another attack. But as it happens now, homeland security targets citizens as terrorists if they are against abortion, are war veterans, own a gun, or supporting of a gold standard. Now the patriot act allows the federal government to monitor not just everyones phone conversations, but their internet searches, etc. The CEO of Google confirmed this by saying "If you are doing something you dont want other people knowing about, then you shouldnt be doing it anyways". Using a provision in the patriot act, the government just mandated phone service providers to create a new system that can track all of its users via gps in real time. Thats some pretty Orwellian shit if you ask me.

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Originally posted by zDmn I agree with you for the most part. But then I always come back to one question that confuses me. If they were desperate for just oil why arent they drilling here when they dont have to go to war to get it? War is the uncommon factor in this situation. Who profits from war? The military industrial complex sure does. The central banks who profit off of the endless war loans sure make a profit. And last but not least, the federal government profits. As long as there is a boogie man, the uneducated masses are much more willing to trade in their rights for the secure umbrella of the government even though they will have neither in the end. In the USA homeland security and the patriot act were both passed to protect people from another attack. But as it happens now, homeland security targets citizens as terrorists if they are against abortion, are war veterans, own a gun, or supporting of a gold standard. Now the patriot act allows the federal government to monitor not just everyones phone conversations, but their internet searches, etc. The CEO of Google confirmed this by saying "If you are doing something you dont want other people knowing about, then you shouldnt be doing it anyways". Using a provision in the patriot act, the government just mandated phone service providers to create a new system that can track all of its users via gps in real time. Thats some pretty Orwellian shit if you ask me.

Jesus Christ, dude, do you have a collection of tin foil hats?

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Originally posted by ziptnf Jesus Christ, dude, do you have a collection of tin foil hats?

Explain yourself genius. Enlighten us with your endless wealth of knowledge.

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Originally posted by zDmn Explain yourself genius. Enlighten us with your endless wealth of knowledge.

No thanks, I don't want to spoil your Friday night, filled with you searching through newspaper clippings and sweating while ceaselessly muttering to yourself that "EVERYBODY IS WATCHING".

Do you really think that anybody cares what you are doing? Just because Google and Cellphone Service Providers have the technology to be able to track your whereabouts doesn't mean that they will even so much as consider looking at that information unless you give them a reason to. If you start searching how to make concealed bombs and then search for a flight using Google, why in the hell would they not want that information? It's not like the government is putting up cameras in your house or some shit. This issue shouldn't be that upsetting, why would you be so concerned about your privacy unless you had something to hide?

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quote:

Originally posted by zDmn I agree with you for the most part. But then I always come back to one question that confuses me. If they were desperate for just oil why arent they drilling here when they dont have to go to war to get it? War is the uncommon factor in this situation. Who profits from war? The military industrial complex sure does. The central banks who profit off of the endless war loans sure make a profit. And last but not least, the federal government profits.

I profited, I'm not exactly proud about it but when oil speculation was at its peak I did a bit of buying and selling with some spare cash before it got too volatile and punched out.
So the ordinary person makes money out of it, if they want to, otherwise they just drive around in their big car going broke as the price of fuel spikes through the roof.

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As long as there is a boogie man, the uneducated masses are much more willing to trade in their rights for the secure umbrella of the government even though they will have neither in the end. In the USA homeland security and the patriot act were both passed to protect people from another attack.

Iraq never had any substantiated, sponsored or otherwise attacks on US soil or persons around the time of Sept 11. The fact that most of US citizenry seems to be incapable of pointing at a map and knowing where the hell most other countries are, seems to assist in the riling up some extra xenophobic stupidity that's endemic in its culture.
All the government has to do is point and yell "Al-Kaidarz' on a map and most of the country now believes that there is terrorists somewhere there, soon followed by 100,000 violent Americans hopped up on too much sugar go charging over the boarder of neighbouring states.

Irony is most of the terrorists came out of Saudi Arabia where the US forces where stationed pre-invasion, American's don't do irony well so they wouldn't really get the joke that 'hey, going the wrong way' if you even hinted at it.

At the end of the day, world isn't really much different with Saddamn gone except if you actually live in Iraq where its much worse.

quote:

Originally posted by zDmn The central banks who profit off of the endless war loans sure make a profit.

central banks return all profits (minus expenses) to the treasury you fucktard.