Ah, so you're for a do-nothing government, which can't get anything passed because the minority party does nothing but filibuster everything. And then you are going to post a thread about how ineffective the Democratic government is in a few months.

quote:

Originally posted by Comrade Stalin Ah, so you're for a do-nothing government, which can't get anything passed because the minority party does nothing but filibuster everything. And then you are going to post a thread about how ineffective the Democratic government is in a few months.

Actually no. I am for a government that does something, provided something is actually a good thing for a change that's not loaded with misaligned incentives, pork and sweetheart earmarks.

No, Krypton, this thread is about pointing out the continued repetitive hypocrisy of politicians and waiting for someone like you to tell me why it's OK this time but why it was the end of the world when the GOP did it (i.e. you'll rationalize it by telling me that no matter what is in the bill, it is critically imperative at this very second that health care reform be passed by any means necessary). Seriously, is it any wonder that these elected buffoons have a disapproval rate of something like 90% these days???

I don't agree with Obama's own healthcare proposal because I don't believe it is constitutional to mandate healthcare insurance or else face a penalty and I think that his "incentives" to get everyone to jump on board are more punitive (and therefore less palatable to me) than the versions of the bill that are already out there. However, Obama's proposal is 10 pages instead of the 2,700 pages of nonsense that the Dems in congress managed to put together.

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka No, Krypton, this thread is about pointing out the continued repetitive hypocrisy of politicians and waiting for someone like you to tell me why it's OK this time but why it was the end of the world when the GOP did it (i.e. you'll rationalize it by telling me that no matter what is in the bill, it is critically imperative at this very second that health care reform be passed by any means necessary). Seriously, is it any wonder that these elected buffoons have a disapproval rate of something like 90% these days???

HYPOCRISY?? Aren't the Republicans the one refusing to cooperate with ANY of the bills being put on the floor? Most of the things they are trying to get passed are legitimately worthwhile, but the GOP is just the party of "NO". Sure, some programs in the stimulus aren't the best, but at least it's something. Show me an instance where a republican has tried to make something productive happen during this administration that wasn't a ridiculous notion? And it's the Democrats fault, still, right? Who are the hypocrites again?

BTW, it is important that health care reform is passed this very second, you know why? ONE THIRD of Americans don't have health care. Tell me that this is acceptable.

quote:

I don't agree with Obama's own healthcare proposal because I don't believe it is constitutional to mandate healthcare insurance or else face a penalty and I think that his "incentives" to get everyone to jump on board are more punitive (and therefore less palatable to me) than the versions of the bill that are already out there.

Many other countries have mandatory healthcare, and they seem to be pretty happy about it.

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quote:

HYPOCRISY?? Aren't the Republicans the one refusing to cooperate with ANY of the bills being put on the floor? Most of the things they are trying to get passed are legitimately worthwhile, but the GOP is just the party of "NO". Sure, some programs in the stimulus aren't the best, but at least it's something. Show me an instance where a republican has tried to make something productive happen during this administration that wasn't a ridiculous notion? And it's the Democrats fault, still, right? Who are the hypocrites again?

I said POLITICIANS. That means both sides. But you illustrated my point beautifully. It's hard to be a supportive party when you are closed out of the legislative process that was supposed to be open but is really closed. Plenty of republicans actually DID try to put forth reform ideas early in the process and they were quickly shot down so don't act all high and mighty about it. You're just spouting rhetoric. The hypocrites are just about every single person WE have elected. They do not have our best interests in mind. They exist to spend money and get elected to keep their power.

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BTW, it is important that health care reform is passed this very second, you know why? ONE THIRD of Americans don't have health care. Tell me that this is acceptable.

What a load of bullshit. How many of those people voluntarily make the decision every day to not purchase healthcare because they don't think they need it? How many of them are here illegally, yet still think they're entitled to the largesse of my tax receipts? How many of them are temporarily without healthcare due to a job change or a change in coverage or something of that nature? You're vastly overstating the real figures in order to convey a sense of urgency (which is exactly the tactic being used by our wonderful congress to ram through as much legislation as they can without letting anybody read the fine print). Frankly, I'm glad there are some GOP stone-wallers because what is the real harm in taking a few extra months to review something that, by your own admission, is soooo important? Furthermore, why should it ever be the responsibility of people like me to subsidize healthcare for these people? My healthcare is expensive enough already. I see no reason to pay for my neighbor. That is NOT a solution.

quote:

Many other countries have mandatory healthcare, and they seem to be pretty happy about it.

OK thanks for the meaningless sentence. Many other countries don't have mandatory healthcare and they seem to be pretty happy about it. Yay.

Last edited by Shakka on Feb-24-2010 at 22:24

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Actually no. I am for a government that does something, provided something is actually a good thing for a change that's not loaded with misaligned incentives, pork and sweetheart earmarks.

You get what you vote for. America voted so it isn't like they didn't know what they were going to get.

quote:

No, Krypton, this thread is about pointing out the continued repetitive hypocrisy of politicians and waiting for someone like you to tell me why it's OK this time but why it was the end of the world when the GOP did it (i.e. you'll rationalize it by telling me that no matter what is in the bill, it is critically imperative at this very second that health care reform be passed by any means necessary). Seriously, is it any wonder that these elected buffoons have a disapproval rate of something like 90% these days???

Funny how those politicians always seem to be Democrats. Frankly, the GOP won't vote for healthcare reform if it ended world hunger, so I'm not going to bother rationalizing it to you. But what I think is stupid is for a 60/40 vote is needed to pass the most important legislation. It's pretty blatantly obvious Republicans in league with their health care industry brethren want little to no reform. Inter-state insurance and tort reform? LOL. That is the extent of Republican healthcare reform, which is a joke.

quote:

I don't agree with Obama's own healthcare proposal because I don't believe it is constitutional to mandate healthcare insurance or else face a penalty and I think that his "incentives" to get everyone to jump on board are more punitive (and therefore less palatable to me) than the versions of the bill that are already out there. However, Obama's proposal is 10 pages instead of the 2,700 pages of nonsense that the Dems in congress managed to put together.

Is it constitutional to mandate car insurance and face a penalty if you get pulled over without?

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Originally posted by Comrade Stalin Is it constitutional to mandate car insurance and face a penalty if you get pulled over without?

You don't need collision, you just need liability in case you hurt someone else or their property. It really isn't the same.

___________________
"Go back to bed america your government is in control
Here's American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it,
Watch these picturary retards bang their fuckin' skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom,
Here you go America you are free to do as we tell you
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quote:

Originally posted by Groundhog Boy You don't need collision, you just need liability in case you hurt someone else or their property. It really isn't the same.

What is the social cost of someone who goes to the hospital and doesn't have insurance to pay for their treatment? It's huge. I want to know what in the constitution makes mandating health insurance unconstitutional. My view is actually that health insurance should not be mandated, but that's only without a public option. To me, healthcare reform is largely pointless without a public option.

Last edited by Comrade Stalin on Feb-25-2010 at 02:37

quote:

Originally posted by Comrade Stalin Is it constitutional to mandate car insurance and face a penalty if you get pulled over without?

You have a choice to not drive a car and take public transit and forego any need for car insurance. If you care as much about the environment as you say, perhaps you should sell your car, drop your insurance and jump on the bus. Win win win as far as I can tell.

quote:

Originally posted by Comrade Stalin What is the social cost of someone who goes to the hospital and doesn't have insurance to pay for their treatment? It's huge. I want to know what in the constitution makes mandating health insurance unconstitutional. My view is actually that health insurance should not be mandated, but that's only without a public option. To me, healthcare reform is largely pointless without a public option.

I was just saying it wasn't a good analogy.

___________________
"Go back to bed america your government is in control
Here's American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it,
Watch these picturary retards bang their fuckin' skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom,
Here you go America you are free to do as we tell you
We want your soul
Your cash, your house, your phone, your cash, your house, your life" -Adam Freeland - We Want Your Soul

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka You have a choice to not drive a car and take public transit and forego any need for car insurance. If you care as much about the environment as you say, perhaps you should sell your car, drop your insurance and jump on the bus. Win win win as far as I can tell.

Who cares if you have or don't have a choice? Again, what is unconstitutional about mandated health insurance when the social cost of those without is hugely detrimental?

quote:

Originally posted by Comrade Stalin Ah, so you're for a do-nothing government, which can't get anything passed because the minority party does nothing but filibuster everything.

Sounds great to me.

Gridlock = win win for taxpayers. I hope the dems do the same if they are ever in the minority again.