I can imagine people saying you've got the wrong kicks or the wrong ears or monitors, but seriously I've had it with trying to get sampled kicks to fit my tracks.

I spend too many hours trying to get vengeance or wave alchemy kicks trying to sound current and fit for purpose.

I layer, I apply things like BBE sonic maximser, I pitch them, trim them, EQ them etc but I have tonight decided I need to try something like Metrum so I can satisfy my hunger for the right kick.

I can make my own from synths but I don't find them quite perfect eaither.

Anyone had sucess with any of these software kikc makers?

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the problem with vengeance is that the samples is already processed so all the dynamics are lost leaving you with nothing to work with. i have used 909 and 808 samples in all my songs, mixing, pitching, eqing, distorting, combining whatever to make them decent. never got it awesome though but a lot easier to work with than compressed to hell shit samples from vengeance. ive also tried to synthezise my own kicks without any good result. tried with subtractor. it is possible but i never had complete control. im planing on using 80s samples on my next project. 606 kick etc. its so lol.

What I like to do is layer a 909 or 808 kick with anything ; perc sounds, hihats, shakers. Its pretty much how all the kicks are made anyways. You can get completely new stuff by moving the perc sound milliseconds from your kick. The way it phases or something makes it sound different. Love making my kicks like that.

I usually start out with a sampled kick that will be replaced later on, but at the same time, almost has the timbre i'm looking for. Later on in the song, I tend to layer my kicks. I usually have 2-3 different kicks that are layered. I might pitch them individually also, but you should listen for phase cancellation.

Don't be afraid to experiment. Layering closed hats, toms, and snares might help do the trick.

Lately I've been using SPL Transient designer + a tube warmer usually on 2 kicks layered together with some EQ cuts. Transient designer really gives the kick more punch.

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quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler I spend too many hours trying to get vengeance or wave alchemy kicks trying to sound current and fit for purpose. I layer, I apply things like BBE sonic maximser, I pitch them, trim them, EQ them etc but I have tonight decided I need to try something like Metrum so I can satisfy my hunger for the right kick.

Your kick should sound pretty decent just dropped into the mix. If you're doing heavy EQ, using bass enhancers or other treatment to get your kick sounding decent, it's definitely the wrong kick relative to the other sounds.

If none of the Vengeance or Wave Alchemy kicks are close, then I'd look at the other sounds in the song, particularly the bass and the low frequencies of the other instruments. Those sample packs cover a wide range of sounds and are used either straight up or very close to straight up in a lot of great sounding songs.

Maybe try recreating a song you think sounds excellent, where the kick is playing relatively by itself in the intro (maybe with some other percussive elements). Match the kick so it's sounding very similar, then try matching the bass when it comes in. I learn something new every time I do this.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler I can imagine people saying you've got the wrong kicks or the wrong ears or monitors, but seriously I've had it with trying to get sampled kicks to fit my tracks. I spend too many hours trying to get vengeance or wave alchemy kicks trying to sound current and fit for purpose. I layer, I apply things like BBE sonic maximser, I pitch them, trim them, EQ them etc but I have tonight decided I need to try something like Metrum so I can satisfy my hunger for the right kick. I can make my own from synths but I don't find them quite perfect eaither. Anyone had sucess with any of these software kikc makers?

Which Wave Alchemy pack have you got???

I usually just drop those bad boys in, shorten the decay, sometimes soften the attack but thats generally all they need

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I stopped "making" kicks a long time ago. I tried endless layering of sinewaves to hipassed vengeance kicks, vengeance kicks alone with outrageous fx processing, layering and making my own sub enhance patches for them. Using a tiny bit of overdrive/tube distortion. And after all of that, my kicks still sounded like shit.

Because I feel its so important to have a solid kick, and can do my basslines fairly well now. I've converted to 100% stealing other peoples kicks. And it never fails me now. I'm not sure if its the hi end processing they're doing, or maybe they just have better samples. But I must have stole at least 10 kicks alone from kandi, a couple from tyas, some more from other random producers, and have no moral reservations in doing so. Just that their kicks are always snappier, punchier, deeper, and always seem to sound 100 times better than any kick I've ever used in vengeance orr alchemy. I really don't give a shit, its just a kick. I do the rest of the sounds myself and its just what works for me now.

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Sequencers: FL Studio 9XXL & Reason 3.
Main Synth Bass GTs - Pro-53, V-Station, Sytrus, Subtractor, Trilian, Blue, Sylenth & Z3ta.
Main Synth Lead/Pad GTs - Z3ta, Sytrus, Sylenth, Vangard, Albino & Nexus.
Main FXs GTs - Waves Plugins, Soundtoys, Volcano, FL Native FX.
Hardware - Truths, Echo Audiofire, Virus Snow, & Novation Xio Midi-Synth.

Some principles that worked for me and might work for you as well:

- define for yourself what kick you want, this might sound basic, but know what you're looking for, rather than clueless mix and matching
- Don't focus too much on a solo'ed kick, focus on how it sits in the mix
- in general, kick samples don't need much compression beyond "glueing them" with mixbus compression
- don't layer just because you've read about it, if it sounds right, it often is right, don't try to force yourself into using all ingredients to get the perfect kick recipy. (i.e: I must use EQ, compression, gating, transient designers, limiters, vintage warmers and layers to get that perfect kick)
- when using a synth as a kicksource, you might want to layer to get the snap, but don't focus too much on layering near finished samples
- GATE, GATE, GATE, thick kicks, often sound even more thicker if there is space in the mix, gating the kick, brings space for bassline and percussion, bringing dynamics back in the mix.
- know your room, standing waves will never allow u to get the perfect kick in the low end, since things will sound odd elsewhere.

since i use METRUM, for me, i tend to grab back to 1 kick, i've tuned and saved as preset, which only needs a bit of gating, do let it do what i want it to do.

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I used to be a big fan of layering kicks, but these days I rather process a single one than try to get a few to sit together.

Hardest part for me is tuning the kick to the bass, especially with vengeance kicks, its easy enough to do in FL but still a bit of a mission sometimes.

Bazzism is great for psy kicks or when you need a sharp kick, then I usually layer a sub drum underneath it to give it boom.

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omnisphere is quite decent for making electronic kick drums from scratch, seriously, so is stylus, best is a combo of both.

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Here ya go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18hvNPAJXxA

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Jn51ZU-VlQ

enjoy

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