Hi

I was wondering whether there is any particular advantage of using a stereo widener as opposed to duplicating the sound and panning one hard left and one hard right?

Thanks

If you would pan two instances of the same sound, one hard left, and one hard right then the stereo image won't be changed at all. You end up just getting the same sound. Treat them both with different effects, like EQ or delay, and you will have a wider sound. Also, some people say that by using a stereo widener, there's a slight chance that the sound might disappear on a mono sound system.

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I'd strongly advise against using stereo wideners unless you know exactly what it's doing. Most of them work by delaying one channel slightly, so if you then play a that widened sound on a mono system you'll end up with a horrible flanging effect.

As the chap above said, just panning 2 copies of a sound to the sides won't make it sound any wider, they need to be different sounds in some way. Panning delay is quite a good one for adding width (so taps alternate between the left and right sides). Most reverb acts in stereo, so that can be an easy way to add a bit of width. Or try duplicating the synth, panning one copy left and the other right then change a few settings for one side: different filter settings, waveforms, etc.

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Try adding some chorus?

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The lower the frequency, the more you should be careful with using one. I generally try to avoid it unless I'm trying to simulate an orchestra or something.

I don't know if other wideners let you control this, but in logic you can prevent the bass cancellation while using a stereo widener because it allows you to only start widening frequencies beyond a certain point, so you can widen the high end and leave the low end solid centre.

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you could use some plug-in that create a delay from the left and right channel like PSP mix sinc

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@ the OP; it really depends on how your "stereo widener" is working to widen the signal. Some of them use a delay, some of them throw the left and right channels out of phase, some of them use an MS matrix to boost the side channels. Each of these has different pro's and con's, and needs to be understood in order to avoid phase issues.

My tip is to avoid stereo wideners unless you can explain exactly what they do.

quote:

Originally posted by Seandroid I don't know if other wideners let you control this, but in logic you can prevent the bass cancellation while using a stereo widener because it allows you to only start widening frequencies beyond a certain point, so you can widen the high end and leave the low end solid centre.

You can use an MS linear phase EQ for this sort of thing really effectively. Really cool effect and highly useful. Not sure how the logic one works, but be careful you aren't still getting cancelation in the high freqs. Cancelation isn't only a problem for sub frequencies.

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quote:

Originally posted by kitphillips @ the OP; it really depends on how your "stereo widener" is working to widen the signal. Some of them use a delay, some of them throw the left and right channels out of phase, some of them use an MS matrix to boost the side channels. Each of these has different pro's and con's, and needs to be understood in order to avoid phase issues. My tip is to avoid stereo wideners unless you can explain exactly what they do. You can use an MS linear phase EQ for this sort of thing really effectively. Really cool effect and highly useful. Not sure how the logic one works, but be careful you aren't still getting cancelation in the high freqs. Cancelation isn't only a problem for sub frequencies.

Good info here. One thing to bear in mind with LP Eq's is that they have little character, which for the most part is a good thing as we design so many of the sounds we use, but some normal EQ's impart a certain sound which can be desirable in a lot of cases. I always reach for the logic eq but I think for filtering purposes I should actually start using LP EQ as often it's to simply take things away as cleanly as I can.

The only problem with linear phase EQ though is they can introduce ringing which is frequency dependent. Not a problem with upper frequency range as the harmonics are beyond the hearing spectrum but can register whwn used with lower frequencies.

I was actually just doing a bit of research on MS eq's and found this neat little trick in Logic:

If you set up Logic with a linear phase eq in a FX slot on a given channel, then want to hear how it compares to the normal logic eq, if you click on the LP EQ slot and swap it out, the "normal" eq will replace it with exactly the same settings, giving you an instant comparison.

i had to encounter this problem when i was recording my guitar.

however, this article (with audio examples embedded) is a good find.

http://audio.tutsplus.com/tutorials...ing-techniques/

the track you want to double needs to NOT be identical, i thought about it and couldnt be arsed to record another guitar track so in the end i just offset both tracks by like 0.1ms and panned them left/right.

POW!

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quote:

Originally posted by KilldaDJ i had to encounter this problem when i was recording my guitar. however, this article (with audio examples embedded) is a good find. http://audio.tutsplus.com/tutorials...ing-techniques/ the track you want to double needs to NOT be identical, i thought about it and couldnt be arsed to record another guitar track so in the end i just offset both tracks by like 0.1ms and panned them left/right. POW!

Yes, but that's exactly what a widener does, and that will give you the flange effect on mono systems.

I gotta say, fuck it. Who gives a shit? So long as you'r sound doesn't completely disappear there's no harm really.

Loads of sounds in modern dance are heavily stereo effected.

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quote:

Originally posted by Lunar Phase 7 Yes, but that's exactly what a widener does, and that will give you the flange effect on mono systems. I gotta say, fuck it. Who gives a shit? So long as you'r sound doesn't completely disappear there's no harm really. Loads of sounds in modern dance are heavily stereo effected.

You've got a point here and I've been trying to get this across for a little while now. There a common misconception that all clubs are mono when in fact the vast majority of them are dual mono if not stereo. It's incredibly difficult to produce so that your track is perfect in both stereo and mono, unless you keep the stereo image quite basic which is not ideal for EDM as we focus using the streo field for effect as well using many stereo FX etc.

My view is that you should produce in Stereo, and check to make sure it's not turd in mono - it should still work in mono, but the priority is stereo.