Hi Trance Addicts!

I'm not sure if it's been discussed much before, but I wanted to raise the issue of two-tier (sometimes three-tier) clubbing that's so prevalent in the Montreal scene.

I'm referring here to the Guest List, VIP systems that dominate the doors at most events.

This system seemed perfectly normal to me as it was all I'd experienced until I stumbles across the rave scene, where this system doesn't exist. It was interesting discovering this point of reference, and gave me some perspective on how the two-tier system risks alienating certain crowds from attending events!

Consider the drive you might've once felt to try and get yourself on VIP lists for after-hours and whatnot. Basically, I've found that either one must be good buddies with someone in charge, or one is required to promote one's ass off to get people on one's own "lists" in order to get a free pass, or even a couple extra dollars in one's hand.

I'm worried that this might create a divide in the overall 'vibe' of events, having some people get in for free simply for knowing the crowd. My feeling is that this risks fostering a sense of "elitism" where certain crowds might think that the event is their own and that everyone paying the regular door price is simply a "drop-in" or someone just passing through.

However, the person paying the full door price is actually supporting the artists as they're the ones giving them money! I've experienced disrespect shown to these people who just drop in and pay full door price since they might be "unknown" to the dominant group who believe themselves to be the heart of the party... because they're VIPs or whatever.

Interestingly enough, my experience of raves is that everyone, even those really involved in events who are friends with the promoters, artists, etc... are more than happy to pay full price to access such events! They pay the same price as everyone else as they are equals within the party. Even people who supply equipment and help with set-up and tear down aren't given free passes -- they do it simply because they want to help out!

I couldn't imagine many people in the club scene being too happy paying full door price after helping with set-up and tear-down, because the system is plainly two-tier.

I'd like to recommend a relaxation of two-tier policies in clubs, and that a standard price be set for EVERYONE to pay. That way, the overall prices can be lowered and people that aren't necessarily know to the scene might be more happy to pass by... particularly if they know they're not paying for themselves and the dozen friends the DJ brought in for free!

I think this would help lighten the vibe in the club scene, which has, in my view, become saturated with too many people expecting too much, and has become an epicenter of elitist thought. This, of course, does not apply to all people, but I see this as a general trend...

What do you think?

Is your comment specific to afterhours or nightclubs overall?

so true, was this system here back in 2000-2005(aria days)

Maybe it's just me, but I for one have never had guestlist on a night where someone was playing who I really wanted to see.

And I don't mean just back in the Aria days (god knows I didn't give a shit what the price was lol) but even the last couple of times I went to a normal hours club (best time was Steve Lawler @ Tribe)


But one quick question... when you say...

quote:

Interestingly enough, my experience of raves is that everyone, even those really involved in events who are friends with the promoters, artists, etc... are more than happy to pay full price to access such events! They pay the same price as everyone else as they are equals within the party. Even people who supply equipment and help with set-up and tear down aren't given free passes -- they do it simply because they want to help out!

When you say "rave", you gotta be more specific, cause you can't compare "raves" to a "normal club hour" place.

It doesn't matter if the latter has a crazy DJ playing, it's 2 completely different things, which in turn means 2 different vibes,crowd etc...

quote:

Originally posted by JamesBrown Interestingly enough, my experience of raves is that everyone, even those really involved in events who are friends with the promoters, artists, etc... are more than happy to pay full price to access such events! They pay the same price as everyone else as they are equals within the party. Even people who supply equipment and help with set-up and tear down aren't given free passes -- they do it simply because they want to help out!

Where did you go party? I was a rave promoter in Ottawa for 3 years and I can tell you for a fact that we always had a guest list. It would include other promoters, the DJs' +1's (or +whatevers), all the staff (not only including those who did set-up and tear-down, but those who simply handed out flyers before the event), and friends.

Montreal is absolutely the same way.

quote:

Originally posted by zeKsg so true, was this system here back in 2000-2005(aria days)

of course.

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Hi!

This question is about both clubs and after-hours, in general! Nothing specific, and it is not the rule that this two-tier system causes problems... my issue with it has more to do with how it might create a divide between l33t party goers and more casual users.

Here's my main issue. Who gets on the Guest List? What does this person who gets on the Guest List have to do to get on the guest list? Generally, it's favours... and many DJs and promoters try to entice others to promote the party to their friends, "and if you give me 6 names, you will get on my free list..." or whatever. But really, if the person supported the party and was actually interested, wouldn't he promote it anyway? Why the need to be bribed? It's encouraging fans to become pwns to the DJ...

... for sure, I've been given many favours by buddies, especially during tough times when I wouldn't have been able to go out otherwise... so I'm not complaining that I'm the one not getting free passes, because I get shit-tons.

But yeah, raves as distinguished from clubs inasmuch as they're a private all-night party. :-)

i.e. a rave as defined as something thrown as a unique event in a space that is not regularly used as an open club space (like a bar), but more like a loft or disused warehouse (*cough* like 3810 St. Patrick *cough* -- I seem to have caught this cough from all the toxic chemicals in the air over there!)...

I suppose same issues could arise there, too... just happens to be that the commercial scene seems to attract much more negative vibes, and I think much of that has to do with the commercialization aspect... PLUR is still alive in some of the more delightful areas of the underground... just as it might be in some of the more hopeful club spaces.

If anyone would like to give examples of places they think have chill vibes void of the sociological issue of Difference, caused by Guest List shinanigans, as I outlined above... please feel free to promote them here!

Interesting this topic is here. I was recently discussing the scene with some friends of mine that were more into the Aria/Sona/Stereo days.

Most of them called me a nerd for being in the underground '24 notice' type of rave scene, Kirk6 days and the like.

There's already a big disconnect between people preferring the 'commercial' venues to the underground ones, so much to the point that they would look down on us.

Interesting.

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Here's an opinion from someone at the other end, who has been spoiled by the perks and the freelists.

Some places i didn't even need free list, showing up at the door was enough to grant free entrance, but that's because I've been in the scene for a long long time, you make friends all over with time.

Anyways, I understand your point, giving free entrance promotes a l33t attitude. But hear me right, this is not the main cause.

Most who get freelist are the first ones to bitch and moan and belittle the event... they have one less reason to truly appreciate the night because they didn't pay a penny, they don't need to get in the mood and enjoy the night. But this isn't specific to our scene, think about movie critics who get in for free and will destroy a movie, even if you as a paying movie goer will often disagree with them.

Myself I have given countless freelists and some people wouldn't even show up after all the trouble I went through... or would just bitch, they feel entitled a good time, not paying is not enough!

But, your comment about the creating of a l33ter crowd reeks of naiveness, even if those crowd pay, they still have been out hundreds of times more than you and/or work at one or more clubs and/or have organized many events and have earned their status. This won't go away, and it's called gaining experience and you'll find it everywhere else in life.

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First off for clubbing I think it's pretty easy to get on a guest list if you know any type of promoter or bartender/barmaid. The real money for clubs is made on the alcohol they sell and not on entry.

For afterhours I think it's hard much harder to get on a full VIP guest list. They usually have reduced lists which are fairly easy to get on but only reduce the door price by $5-10. If you're on a budget it's easy to not spend too much while you're @ an afterhour club since you can just refill your water. I used to always refill my gatorade/water with tap water when I first started partying, now I just spend $40-50 on Gatorade refills because I'm no longer a starving student .

I think a big point you missed that the door prices that you pay at a club and especially afterhours in my opinion are aimed at people not in the know, it should be people that are drunk and rarely go to afterhours and just want to party more that night and/or tourists/visitors. For example I often notice large groups of tourists or visitors paying full price for entry at Circus when it's pretty easy to get reduced.