what do you mean by effect the mix ?

Having two different bass notes even in the same key will always sound weird and it has to do with our perception of tones which can be seen in how the overtone series and say traditional orchestration coincide which will also translate to electronic music perhaps even more so given the importance given to bass tones. Tones in that area close together regardless if it is a consonant interval will sound bad

So right off the bat, same key and different chords will sound funny for that reason. As far melodies or pitched material sounding dissonant, again yes the key is irrelevant. Having a major/minor 2 nd overlap without the proper resolution will sound odd.

I've never really been a proponent of harmonic mixing in so far as the way people seem to use it. Harmonic mixing should not be applied to actual mixing songs but rather going from one key to another as you would going from track A to B. This is where the change in key can really make a difference. It should be used as a transition tool, not a mixing tool to make 2 tracks sound neat together.

PLaying everything in the same key essentially makes your set dull. It diminishes the ability of the audience to know when a new track has started which is usually a sense of anticipation which is good. Not that using two tracks in the same key cannot be effective for a wanted effect like mixing 2 tracks very quickly where you don't want them to notice a change in key.

But in general, people that claim to do harmonic mixing lack a insight into what makes music exciting. They feel like they are providing a superior mix when in fact, they are probably making a potential set worse.

The problem is that djs want to start manipulating key regions without having the knowledge to do so. The result is almost always the same as say a guy djing for 2 months given a mixer with big buttons that add FX. not pretty.

___________________
"This is why Superman works alone." GC
old stuff from days gone by (2001-2004)
Mad For Brad's gay little contest

Harmonic mixing is not about playing a set in one key, any more than beatmatching is about playing a whole set at one tempo.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

that is how most people tend to view it. Not to play everything in the same key but to use it as a tool to mix songs so they sound good together rather than what it is most useful for and that is the psychological impact of going from one key to another.

___________________
"This is why Superman works alone." GC
old stuff from days gone by (2001-2004)
Mad For Brad's gay little contest

Again, you may as well replace "key" with "tempo", for all the sense your argument makes.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

Thanks Looney,

Your opinion best explains what I tried to understand, I guess I was over analyzing music theory abit to much and not seeing it from a practical and DJing point of view.

Thanks for correcting me

looney is right

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Again, you may as well replace "key" with "tempo", for all the sense your argument makes.

not really. Not sure if this is just a matter of deficit in music theory but that is a poor analogy. Pitch can be slowly increased or decreased over a few tracks without anyone noticing yet having an effect. Almost everyone will notice a few cents difference in pitch.

___________________
"This is why Superman works alone." GC
old stuff from days gone by (2001-2004)
Mad For Brad's gay little contest

So if i can ask you this, I start mixing in the new tune and you can hear the new tune coming in and the transition is smooth(harmonies).

And as I drop the tune on the new phrase, the tone,Note, chord or key? don't know really how to explain it theoretically creates like a totally expectant change which cause like an effect going from high set of notes to like a low hard kick. causing the crowd to go wild.

What would you call this effect and theoretically what has happened?

Hope I'm explaining myself clearly?

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney not really. Not sure if this is just a matter of deficit in music theory but that is a poor analogy. Pitch can be slowly increased or decreased over a few tracks without anyone noticing yet having an effect. Almost everyone will notice a few cents difference in pitch.

What, but you can't change key over the course of several tracks? Not only can you move up or down the circle of fifths with a conventional transition, modern technology also allows you to change the key of a record while locking tempo.

Your argument is fucking stupid. A big part of DJing is melding tracks seamlessly to create a larger musical journey that locks people in the groove for hours. You can tell when a transition is happening because new melodies and sounds will enter the mix. You're advocating playing out of key so people hear the transition and have a sense of anticipation? Why not just trainwreck so they know it's coming? Both snap you out of your groove and sound fucking horrible.

Jumping semi-tones, or going from minor to major, can be effective, just like big jumps in tempo. Even dissonance has its uses - I've deliberately mixed out of key for effect before. But these moments should be used very sparingly or they will quickly become tiresome and gimmicky. The more I see you post, the more I become convinced you deliberately spout faux-controversial stupidity just to get people to pay attention to your posts.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

uh oh, oh shit

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J What, but you can't change key over the course of several tracks? Not only can you move up or down the circle of fifths with a conventional transition, modern technology also allows you to change the key of a record while locking tempo. Your argument is fucking stupid. A big part of DJing is melding tracks seamlessly to create a larger musical journey that locks people in the groove for hours. You can tell when a transition is happening because new melodies and sounds will enter the mix. You're advocating playing out of key so people hear the transition and have a sense of anticipation? Why not just trainwreck so they know it's coming? Both snap you out of your groove and sound fucking horrible. Jumping semi-tones, or going from minor to major, can be effective, just like big jumps in tempo. Even dissonance has its uses - I've deliberately mixed out of key for effect before. But these moments should be used very sparingly or they will quickly become tiresome and gimmicky. The more I see you post, the more I become convinced you deliberately spout faux-controversial stupidity just to get people to pay attention to your posts.

your argument was that bpm and key are similar. They aren't. You can change bpm discretely , you can't jump even a quarter tone without most people noticing. Your analogy was bad. That is all. I"m not really sure why you are explaining the concept of going to different key regions. That is how I prescribed one should use harmonic mixing in the first place, secondly, having a dj trying to explain theory to me is somewhat insulting. Trust me, there is nothing you could say regarding music that I either don't already know or could tell you why you are wrong.

___________________
"This is why Superman works alone." GC
old stuff from days gone by (2001-2004)
Mad For Brad's gay little contest

Last edited by Looney4Clooney on Sep-21-2011 at 01:40