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Originally posted by tehlord As the move gets ever closer...... I think i've got my hooks in a full GIK treatment package (bass traps and panels) so the next thing for me to look at is a monitor upgrade. Or not. I'm half thinking that the HS80s in a treated room will be plenty. Then on the other hand I'm looking at some CMS65/A7X's. Then I'm thinking that the CMS65/A7X's aren't enough of an upgrade for it to be worthwhile and maybe I need to look at Twin 6Be's or Event Opals? What say you?

The fact that youve treated your room means you can go up to better monitors and really hear what they can do
That said if you are happy with the HS80s then why go to the hassle of changing?
I found it difficult to mix low-end on mackie Hr824s so i moved up to focal twins, definitely a much better monitor IMO so it was worth the change for me and i can judge the low-end much better now

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I think there are now certain "bands" of value when it comes to the current monitor market.

It used to be that cheap monitors were not really very good so most people who wanted even a "decent" setup would have to pony up a fair bit of money to get something like HR824's, but the market has now changed (and it's better for it).

You know only too well my thoughts on the current entry to mid level (2325p & HS80's etc) but I think there's no real point going for mid priced monitors anymore - the "cheaper" models like the HS80's do such a good job that the gained difference from spending another $500-$800 just isn't worth the tiny increase in performance you'll see.

The real gains are when you jump to that price bracket of the focal twins, and if it were me, I would just either stick with the HS80's which are great monitors, or go the whole hog and get either top level Gene's, PMC's or ideally Focal Twins (I don't particularly like Events).

I can't help thinking that if you don't, you'll always have it in the back of your mind that you should have gone for the other, better model.

dynaudio bm 15s would be next step or some smaller Quested and after that would be something like Klein + Hummel 300 or barefoot sound micromain 35s

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Random thought.

Listening to the Beatport top 20 the other week and despite the fact some will be using all this incredible equipment, none of those tracks sounded particularly awesome and in fact most sounded like eggs frying.

I'm not for a second critiscising folk for wanting great monitoring setups, but in the end a lot of folk make no better musicical outcomes for it.

I'd worry that such equipment would be wasted on someone like me because in the end I'm not a great mixer, and I would still make poor decisions.

Tehlord, your mixing seems top notch to me already so I don't know whether your musical outcomes would truly benefit, but them I'm not qualified to know what the fuk I'm on about!

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quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler Random thought. Listening to the Beatport top 20 the other week and despite the fact some will be using all this incredible equipment, none of those tracks sounded particularly awesome and in fact most sounded like eggs frying. I'm not for a second critiscising folk for wanting great monitoring setups, but in the end a lot of folk make no better musicical outcomes for it. I'd worry that such equipment would be wasted on someone like me because in the end I'm not a great mixer, and I would still make poor decisions. Tehlord, your mixing seems top notch to me already so I don't know whether your musical outcomes would truly benefit, but them I'm not qualified to know what the fuk I'm on about!

Well tbh Rich if I was only going to be doing dance stuff then I'd be happy to stick with the HS80s as it's pretty easy using them and referencing on headphones as well. It's more for the other kind of music I do as well, which I just need more detail for.

@Tom - I know what you mean. I'm in a bit of a quandry tbh as I do want to take a significant step up, but �2.5k on Twins or Opals just doesn't seem right as it's still not a real income provider to me. I know the difference will be there though. I might take a punt on some CMS65s as I was really impressed with them when I auditioned them in store. Dropping to a 6.5" cone would probably benefit as well as I don't really need 8" speakers for what I do, just means more treatment It's really detail i'm after.

I've tried Gene's before and I just don't like them, and the PSI monitors are really hard to audition (although the importer is only 30 minutes from my place here!).

I've heard good things about those Munro Eggs, and they're at a nice pricepoint, but why must they look so fucking gimmicky?

At teh others, some good suggestions there as well, although BM15's are waaaay too big for me.

I do like the HS80s, but I know I'm at the limits of their ability in this room as I can usually improve a mix by finishing it off on headphones, and that isn't right!

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I apologize if this sounds like a dumb question but I'm trying to learn all I can about this stuff.

Is the detail you are missing a matter of the HS simply being unable to reproduce the level of quality/clarity you need or is it that your room treatment needs further adjusting to better take advantage of what the current speakers 'need'?

quote:

Originally posted by tehlord Well tbh Rich if I was only going to be doing dance stuff then I'd be happy to stick with the HS80s as it's pretty easy using them and referencing on headphones as well. It's more for the other kind of music I do as well, which I just need more detail for. @Tom - I know what you mean. I'm in a bit of a quandry tbh as I do want to take a significant step up, but �2.5k on Twins or Opals just doesn't seem right as it's still not a real income provider to me. I know the difference will be there though. I might take a punt on some CMS65s as I was really impressed with them when I auditioned them in store. Dropping to a 6.5" cone would probably benefit as well as I don't really need 8" speakers for what I do, just means more treatment It's really detail i'm after. I've tried Gene's before and I just don't like them, and the PSI monitors are really hard to audition (although the importer is only 30 minutes from my place here!). I've heard good things about those Munro Eggs, and they're at a nice pricepoint, but why must they look so fucking gimmicky? At teh others, some good suggestions there as well, although BM15's are waaaay too big for me. I do like the HS80s, but I know I'm at the limits of their ability in this room as I can usually improve a mix by finishing it off on headphones, and that isn't right!

quote:

Originally posted by tehlord Well tbh Rich if I was only going to be doing dance stuff then I'd be happy to stick with the HS80s as it's pretty easy using them and referencing on headphones as well. It's more for the other kind of music I do as well, which I just need more detail for. @Tom - I know what you mean. I'm in a bit of a quandry tbh as I do want to take a significant step up, but �2.5k on Twins or Opals just doesn't seem right as it's still not a real income provider to me. I know the difference will be there though. I might take a punt on some CMS65s as I was really impressed with them when I auditioned them in store. Dropping to a 6.5" cone would probably benefit as well as I don't really need 8" speakers for what I do, just means more treatment It's really detail i'm after. I've tried Gene's before and I just don't like them, and the PSI monitors are really hard to audition (although the importer is only 30 minutes from my place here!). I've heard good things about those Munro Eggs, and they're at a nice pricepoint, but why must they look so fucking gimmicky? At teh others, some good suggestions there as well, although BM15's are waaaay too big for me. I do like the HS80s, but I know I'm at the limits of their ability in this room as I can usually improve a mix by finishing it off on headphones, and that isn't right!

I hear you Geoff. On the EDM side of things, I have to concur with Richard on this - if it aint broke, don't fix it, and frankly, you're mixes sound spot on and some of the best that people have posted on TA.

I get it for the score projects you want more detail, and the CM65's will give you that but I'm just not sure how much more you'll get for the money. If I were you, you could do two things.

1, But the CM65's from somewhere that will let you return without any restocking fee and set them up right next to the HS80's. Then A/B them and see if they do what you need.

2, If you can't find anywhere that will le you do that, find somewhere that has both and ask them to set them up so you can demo you're work for an hour or so on them. I'm sure DV or Studiospares would do this for you.

I actually have never fallen in love with gene's either. I know they are build very well and I do like their detail but they never floated my boat, regardless of the model.

Stay away from the eggs - I'm hearing very mixed reviews about them - some love them, others hated them.

Adams I find to have great detail especially in the mids and highs but waaaaaay to bright and unbalanced on the lows.

Have you listened to Dynaudio BM5A's? They won't be a massive step up but I know a couple of composers that use them for their simple composing rigs and I always found the detail on them to be really nice. I wouldn't want to try to do final score mixs on them so if that is your intention, then pony up and get the CM65's or twins, but otherwise, they are nice detailed monitors that won't set you back a fortune.

For what it's worth:

I started producing on Event TR8s, which I believe are considered by most people to be nearly as good as the HS80s.

Last year I upgraded to KRK VXT8s and I could not be happier. I have a fully treated room and the VXT8s sound incredible. I produce at very high volumes (more accurately, I switch between very high and very low volumes) and the monitors have never distorted or sounded 'too quiet'. They have tons of low-end and, IMO, a beautiful high-end. I know a lot of people hate on KRKs but it seems that the VXT line stands apart from some of the less favourable models, e.g. Rokits.

I absolutely recommend the VXT8s!

(Not to spam...but you can hear my latest track produced on these monitors in my sig, i.e., the Beltek bootleg (mixdown and master both done by me))

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Originally posted by Nicolas Oliver For what it's worth: I started producing on Event TR8s, which I believe are considered by most people to be nearly as good as the HS80s. Last year I upgraded to KRK VXT8s and I could not be happier. I have a fully treated room and the VXT8s sound incredible. I produce at very high volumes (more accurately, I switch between very high and very low volumes) and the monitors have never distorted or sounded 'too quiet'. They have tons of low-end and, IMO, a beautiful high-end. I know a lot of people hate on KRKs but it seems that the VXT line stands apart from some of the less favourable models, e.g. Rokits. I absolutely recommend the VXT8s! (Not to spam...but you can hear my latest track produced on these monitors in my sig, i.e., the Beltek bootleg (mixdown and master both done by me))

I'm glad you're happy with them Nick and that's all that counts, so I'll refrain from posting my usual intensely negative thoughts about KRK (even though they extend through the VXT range).

I just want to ask you question: how do you find the detail on them? And how do you find the stereo image?

I ask because IMO, through the entire KRK range there is a distinct lack of detail compared to other brands/models, which is exactly why the OP (Tehlord) dumped his KRK's in favor of HS80's and subsequently said the difference was rather large.

Suggesting he goes for KRK in a thread where he's asking for more detail seems somewhat counter productive in my mind.....

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Suggesting he goes for KRK in a thread where he's asking for more detail seems somewhat counter productive in my mind.....

My apologies! I should have read more closely

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Originally posted by DJ RANN I hear you Geoff. On the EDM side of things, I have to concur with Richard on this - if it aint broke, don't fix it, and frankly, you're mixes sound spot on and some of the best that people have posted on TA. I get it for the score projects you want more detail, and the CM65's will give you that but I'm just not sure how much more you'll get for the money. If I were you, you could do two things. 1, But the CM65's from somewhere that will let you return without any restocking fee and set them up right next to the HS80's. Then A/B them and see if they do what you need. 2, If you can't find anywhere that will le you do that, find somewhere that has both and ask them to set them up so you can demo you're work for an hour or so on them. I'm sure DV or Studiospares would do this for you. I actually have never fallen in love with gene's either. I know they are build very well and I do like their detail but they never floated my boat, regardless of the model. Stay away from the eggs - I'm hearing very mixed reviews about them - some love them, others hated them. Adams I find to have great detail especially in the mids and highs but waaaaaay to bright and unbalanced on the lows. Have you listened to Dynaudio BM5A's? They won't be a massive step up but I know a couple of composers that use them for their simple composing rigs and I always found the detail on them to be really nice. I wouldn't want to try to do final score mixs on them so if that is your intention, then pony up and get the CM65's or twins, but otherwise, they are nice detailed monitors that won't set you back a fortune.

Yeah I think i'll get my relatively local DV to set up an hour long A/B for me. I'll probably be going in there with �5k burning a hole in my pocket so if they won't do it i'll start an internet crusade exposing them as unprofessional shamsters

I did listen to the BM5s when I bought the HS80s (along with 8030s, AE22s, CMS65s and some nasty Mackie's) and wasn't wowed by them. In fact it was listening to that selection that finally sold me on the HS80s as I didn't see any real reason to spend more on the others apart from the CMS65's, which stood out as being miles better at the time. They were just �1000 vs �400 for the 80s

Maybe if I spend �5k in one go in there I'll get 10-15% off, who knows......

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