hmm.... sounds like youth lobotomy to me.

why be honest with your emotions when you can be cool

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[ Romans Chapter 1, Verse 6: And you are included among those Gentiles who have been called to belong to Jesus Christ. ]

How has the manufactured culture of cool affected you? your friends?

Is it ethical for companies to play on their consumers insecurities in trying to sell their products?

Does "reflexivity" exist?

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sig edited: no political imagery allowed. please reref to the sig guidelines

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Originally posted by PeacefulWarrior How has the manufactured culture of cool affected you? your friends?

it affects everybody, whether indirectly or not. you can choose to give in to it, you can fight it, or you can (try to) ignore it alltogether.

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Originally posted by PeacefulWarrior Is it ethical for companies to play on their consumers insecurities in trying to sell their products?

ethics is a matter of opinion, but i do, however i believe it to be immoral to tell others what to think by means of marketing, advertising, preying on their insecurities, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by PeacefulWarrior Does "reflexivity" exist?

i dunno

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[ Romans Chapter 1, Verse 6: And you are included among those Gentiles who have been called to belong to Jesus Christ. ]

quote:

Originally posted by PeacefulWarrior Today's youth market is the most ethnically mingled bunch in histroy. ...[Today's youth] ads are a tangle of multiculturalism: scrubbed black faces lounging with their wind-swept white brothers in that great country club in the sky. Is it art imitating life or life imitating art? Actually, it's what sociologists call "reflexivity"--the tendency of communications to shape society. Through reflexivity, the communications industry feeds into the streams that form cultural agendas; the media show us how we could or should be living." -Peter Belmonte (marketing executive) thoughts...

I think this applies to the weak minded and easily influenced. Confident people know what they like and dont like and dont need these marketing retards to show us how we should be living. And id hardly call marketing an "ART" its just a concept of trying to make something appeal to the most people possible so it call sell more.

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I don't know if this thread is about "cool"-ness, racial relations or reflexivity. Reflexivity then.

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Originally posted by PeacefulWarrior "reflexivity"--the tendency of communications to shape society. Through reflexivity, the communications industry feeds into the streams that form cultural agendas; the media show us how we could or should be living."

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Originally posted by ProDiGaL I think this applies to the weak minded and easily influenced. Confident people know what they like and dont like and dont need these marketing retards to show us how we should be living.

I agree with the sentiment in general but not in practice. Confidence and success are not protection against conformity. Even the most confident person will be influenced by the media. It is very difficult to be contrarian all the time. And there are examples everywhere of how the media can create new norms in society that have no social positives - high heels, lipstick, hair gel - all of these things are media driven. While these I've listed are trivial examples, there are many others that are so simple that we take them for granted, an not even a type A personality is immune.

New York is one the most media driven environments (yes, along with London, LA etc.) and you can feel the media pressure lift when you leave the area and go to a suburban or rural area. We are taught in NY to want to wear Armani and drink $10 martinis and when you leave NY it is difficult to remember why.

Yesterday I bought two Thomas Pink ties. I have no idea why.

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Originally posted by ProDiGaL And id hardly call marketing an "ART" its just a concept of trying to make something appeal to the most people possible so it call sell more.

Art or science? Money or power? All of the above. The media uses science because it is effective, but in the end it is trying to create an aesthetic norm - that is art. And yes it is for profit, but fashion would not exist if the ability to influence others were not valuable.

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In theory, theory and practice are the same
In practice, theory and practice are different

quote:

Originally posted by ProDiGaL I think this applies to the weak minded and easily influenced. Confident people know what they like and dont like and dont need these marketing retards to show us how we should be living. And id hardly call marketing an "ART" its just a concept of trying to make something appeal to the most people possible so it call sell more.

Agreed.

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loudcloud New York is one the most media driven environments (yes, along with London, LA etc.) and you can feel the media pressure lift when you leave the area and go to a suburban or rural area. We are taught in NY to want to wear Armani and drink $10 martinis and when you leave NY it is difficult to remember why. Yesterday I bought two Thomas Pink ties. I have no idea why.

Isn't this the prototypical example of being brainwashed?

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Originally posted by Alccode Isn't this the prototypical example of being brainwashed?

yes it is. last time i went to la i was sickened by the power of the corporate world in socal. there is advertising everywhere. and so many people there look exactly the same -- bleach blone hair, fake tan, some nice shorts, and a shirt with some big ass corporate logo write on their shirt.

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[ Romans Chapter 1, Verse 6: And you are included among those Gentiles who have been called to belong to Jesus Christ. ]

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Originally posted by fuct4less and so many people there look exactly the same -- bleach blone hair, fake tan, some nice shorts, and a shirt with some big ass corporate logo write on their shirt.

That is so true, even here in Canada! (zing)

You forgot some form of sandals/flip flops

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Originally posted by Alccode Isn't this the prototypical example of being brainwashed?

Let me take it back. I was being a little too facetious.

I do know why I bought them... I bought them because if I wear them to work, no one will be critical. They will "fit" right in.

I just don't want to spend my energy on other things. I don't care about them so it is easier to conform in this regard.

And we can debate it a little conformity means that you have surrendered to the media machine. I personally think not. I think that the "confident" type-A personality will always have strong opinions and make up their own mind. The point is though - the point is that it is hard to have a strong opinion about everything. One reason that stereotypes exist, that peer pressure works, is that they are shortcuts to make judgements. If we weren't allowed to take shortcuts, we would either make too many mistakes or we would be immobiliized by indecision.

So back to the original thread - does reflexivity exist - absolutely. From fashion to violence in video games to sex on television, there are strong arguments to be made that the media has a responsibility that they are ignoring.

___________________
In theory, theory and practice are the same
In practice, theory and practice are different

quote:

Originally posted by PeacefulWarrior How has the manufactured culture of cool affected you? your friends?

A friend of mine was telling me a few months ago about why he had stopped trying to make new friends. He told me that he thought it was a waste of time, that most people didn't have anything interesting or unique to say, that every time he tried to meet someone new, he felt like they were just a carbon copy of someone he already had known.

I couldn't disagree with me. A few years ago, it meant a lot to me to be perceived as "cool." But I slowly came to realize that this type of social interaction was far too tedious and repetitive to keep me interested. The group-oriented environment of "popular" social groups didn't interest me, as the quality of communication declines rapidly with each person beyond two involved.

I finally game to realize that I didn't really want to have a lot of friends. I would much rather have two or three really close friends than have a large group of "friends" who I didn't really know because my only interaction with them consisted of posturing and trying to act "cool" and gain acceptance within the group.

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Does "reflexivity" exist?

This reminds me why I hated taking that required sociology course. How can communications shape society? Communications and society are not discreet phenomena. Communications are merely a manifestaion of ideas that must already be present in society.

Now, certainly through communication certain ideas may gain or lose prevalence, but this is really just the natural evolution of society. To say that society is being "shaped" by communication is not correct. To say that society is evolving by means of communication is correct.

I don't think the media has as much power as some believe. The ultimate goal of all media organizations is profit - the media merely produces that material which they believe will reap the greates profit. Therefore, society at large determines the content that will be presented to them via the media. In this way, society is merely evolving itself using the media (a form of communication) as a mechanism for that evolution.

Perhaps that's precisely what is meant by reflexivity, but the way Peter Belmonte chose to phrase the concept seemed to ignore the fact that it is a two-way street.