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Re: Arguments in TA.... The List o' Dumb Ones
Well, i agree with most of your post, but, you must have known i was going to have to take issue with this:
| quote: | Originally posted by davinox
"It's like...[insert obscure metaphor here]"
Sorry, the world's problems can't be explained by the tales of a guy walking into a bar with his buddys, and no, he's drunk friend is not Iraq.
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I will agree with you on obscure metaphors, but I don't believe that this one in particular is all that obscure. In fact, i was complimented by several people on it, and i am very proud of it, so proud in fact that i put it on my site.
Metaphors are a well known literary device, and they serve to illustrate points wonderfully. While it may be true that a metaphor is not a description of the point to be made, what it does is bring the underlying ideals into focus by using another situation with similar properties.
This helps people understand by appealing to the lowest common denominator. Everyone has been to a bar, but not everyone knows about international politics. And remember, it was someone else (who shall remain nameless), not me who brought up the bar situation, i was merely responding to him on his own terms.
Now.. I originally thought that you were going to use this post to say WHO were the dumb ones on TA. I was happy to find that you didn't, and rather told of dumb ways of arguing.
However i was dismayed that you could not resist mentioning the arab/israel, US are the demons of the world issue.
Well, since you've opened up that can of worms, i will post my "obscure metaphor" just to make it complete. let's let people judge for themselves just how obscure it is.
This is the version off of my site, i edited it a little.
Recently, someone came to me on an internet forum with the argument that we should attack iraq in pre-emptive self defense. Here is what he said, (i edited for numerous spelling mistakes):
| quote: | If you know someone is coming at you in a bar with a knife do you stand there and get stabbed?.. Or do you prepare yourself for an attack and defend yourself in any way possible in order to protect yourself from bodily harm?....
if you chose the first then you die...if you choose the 2nd you may still die...but you did your best and your survival rate greatly improved
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OK. i see his logic here. BUT, the situation with iraq is not quite how he has described it. Here's my interpretation of the situation.
You are sitting in a bar. your dad used to come to this bar once, about 8 years ago. some dude was picking on this little guy, so your dad beat the crap out of the dude. the guy got some good shots in, and put up a good fight, but in the end, he was beaten badly. your dad let him live, just barely though.
so, your sitting there, having a drink with all your buddies, everyone is having fun. the bartender is your friend, and gives you whatever you want, because he likes you, because you spend way more than anyone else. everyone in the bar is your friend, either because you do favors for them, or because they are afraid of you.
suddenly, someone comes up from behind you and kicks you in the nuts. you reel in pain, and scream in anger. you turn around and see the guy running away, and you chase him. he runs out of the bar, and into another building.
you chase him down the street, and into the other building. you can't find him, but you are pretty sure he is there, so you pull out your machine gun and start firing it around the building, which is unfortunately filled with people who look a lot like him. so, you kill everyone in the building, man, woman and child in your drunken righteous rage. after almost a year, you still haven't found him.
you go back to the bar, pop open a budweiser and start spreading stories about how, you are winning the war, the world will be safe from dirty nut-kickers everywhere, and you won't rest until every one of those dirty bastards is dead. everyone nervously agrees with you, as they watch the crusted blood on your hands dry.
then you notice over in the corner, the guy sitting there by himself. it's the guy your daddy beat up. he looks healthy and ready for revenge.
you get the bouncer of the bar to go over and search the guy. the bouncer is your buddy too of course, and he will do whatever you want as long as you pad his pocket a little.
so, he searchs him, violently. the bouncer says, "it's time for a cavity search" and throws him bent over the bar, and rips off his pants. the dude struggles a bit, but, the gloved hand reaches up there anyway. he manages to squirm away, and you suspect he might have something hidden way up there the bouncer didn't have time to find.
someone whispers in your ear, "hey, i saw him out back trying to sharpen a stick." someone else says they saw him picking up rocks. and another guy says he tried to buy a gun from a friend of his a few years back. your buddies start to get worried. he might have a gun!
you insist the bouncer goes for another search. the guy hides in the corner, he doesn't want to go through that again.
you tell the bar that he could be a threat, he might have a gun.
you try to raise support to get rid of this dangerous threat to the whole bar.
all the while, you have a bowie knife in your pocket, a handgun in your other pocket, an AK47 slung over your back, a grenade launcher on the table, and a tank parked outside. you also have every bar in the whole town full of people with the same, willing to fight for you.
now..
this is where we sit. you are about to kill this guy. just in case, he had a gun, and could be a threat. and the whole rest of the bar is going to sit back and watch you do it.
I'm not afraid of the guy who might have a gun. I'm afraid of the guy who has all the guns, and has shown he isn't afraid to use them on innocent people who get in his way.
If you are interested in finding a more factual analysis, please read this article instead: http://www27.brinkster.com/antiwar/....asp#agressive3
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but dont worry when that forum opens up i have a few threads i wanna start, and surprisingly not about the mid-east... although im sure it will come up.
