guns dont kill people, people kill people. if someone does want a gun, they dont have to go through all the legal bullshit to get one. it is just as easy if not easier to get them illegally off the street. so criminals, those that want to shoot and kill, WILL shoot and kill regardless. yeah, i dont mind stricter gun-obtaining laws and such, but those that are legally able to possess one should have the right to.

but like i said, criminals will get their guns and do whatever they want regardless.

>JM<

guns'n'butter baby. butter merely makes us fat.

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great piece you posted JohnSmith

this whole gun thing in America is insane, it is also stupid to think that every US-citizen has the right to defend themselves with guns...

why can't you have the same laws about guns that most countries have, in Holland it is very difficult to buy a gun, you need permits and tell the government what you want to do with it etc...

in America everyone can get a permit, so it makes it a lot easier to shoot someone when you are angry because you probably own a gun anyway

yanks are weird people

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Thanks for the story JohnSmith, I've enjoyed reading Mike Moore's take on stuff for quite some time...since he's from my home state of Michigan, and my friend Scott's home town of Flint, it's added a little extra interest for me...he's an honest to goodness home grown radical

I've actually found it interesting, and the TO Star for one has picked up on it, that inside the US the sniper shootings never seriously made people even *consider* gun control, most of them essentially basing their argument on the principal that Juricimo laid out, that it's the people and not the guns that are killing people.

And while that's true, people who say that also seem to lose sight of the fact that guns are a *very* impersonal way of killing people. It takes a lot more will to stab someone repeatedly with a knife while they scream, gush blood on you, and claw your face than it does to just sit on a roof, sight them, and pull the trigger.

People additionally bring up the idea that if guns are made illegal only criminals will have them. To my way of thinking, that's also a flawed interpretation. Yes, for a few years while you're attempting to wipe out guns in the normal population you're going to have them primarily still in the hands of criminals, but personally, it doesn't make me feel less safe because having an armed citizenry just makes for *more* guns, and more possibilities for someone to go off the deep end and start plugging people, and so on.

Additionally, with no legal hand guns for instance, that means it'd no longer be legal to sell bullets for said guns either, and last time I checked guns without bullets aren't too effective in the hands of anyone.

I might also mention the fact that the police will still be armed as well. And while that makes me mildly nervous, particularly given the governments attitude toward people like myself lately, I'd still trust them to not start randomly installing martial law when they damn well please...hell, lately I wonder if anyone would even fight it given the erosion of civil liberties that has taken place since the 11.09.01 attacks.

In any case, I think the gun control debate *should have* started up again in the wake of the sniper attacks, but it seems the culture is just too ingrained in America at this point.

I think I'll close with a nice Vonnegut quote that I've had written on my wall for a while now:

"We trust ourselves so much with weapons that many American households keep firearms as pets...

Guns should give us the heebie-jeebies...

They are killing machines.

That is all they are.

We should dread them the way we dread cancer, and cyanide, and electric chairs."

Like chris rock said, they should have "bullet control!" hehe.

Seriously though, I think the lax gun laws do play a major role in the high number of gun related homocide and homocide rates in general in the United States. Having guns so easily accessible must do something to the crime rate. It might not be the sole reason, but it's still a reason.

People can blame it on illegal guns, bad parenting (ie columbine), social issues, but it still remains that if it wasn't for guns being so widly accepted, bad parenting wouldn't lead to nerdy kids shooting up a school, and bad city conditions wouldn't lead to petty gangs shooting up the neighbourhood.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people, Guns just make it a heck of alot easier.

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jimtran.net

We can do without guns in Europe, why can't you?

quote:

Originally posted by jploveparade We can do without guns in Europe, why can't you?

^^^

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quote:

Originally posted by Blik this whole gun thing in America is insane, it is also stupid to think that every US-citizen has the right to defend themselves with guns... why can't you have the same laws about guns that most countries have, in Holland it is very difficult to buy a gun, you need permits and tell the government what you want to do with it etc... in America everyone can get a permit, so it makes it a lot easier to shoot someone when you are angry because you probably own a gun anyway yanks are weird people

c'mon you cant get a gun here that easy man its just as strict if not stricter to get guns here...like i said earlier easier to get a gun off the street i can get one in about a day if i wanted one.... so the above statements (opinions) are just that: opinions.

another thing is why not be able to defend when a buster comes up to you and wants to shoot you. what r u gonna do call 911? haha. nope you're gonna shoot the mothafucka that is threathening your life that's what you're gonna do. survival of the fittest.

quote:

Originally posted by jploveparade We can do without guns in Europe, why can't you?

so people in europe dont have guns? c'mon now another absurd statement...people kill people all over planet earth..no different in europe man.

>JM<

Last edited by JM on Nov-01-2002 at 22:11

While guns aren't neccessary to kill people they sure make it easier. Even if there wernt guns you could still stab people. Thats why I agree with the statment "Guns dont kill people, people kill people"

quote:

Originally posted by jploveparade We can do without guns in Europe, why can't you?

because then the king of england could just walk into your house and start pushing you around!

do YOU want that?!

huh! huh!

but seriously, im not touching this one, because thered be problems choosing either side. i wouldnt want all you Euros to start getting high and mighty about how much better Europe is without guns, cause even tho i hate guns im sure you have some other rediculous problem that the US doesnt. but whatever...the US is just stupid/insane/retarded or whatever. oh and we want to wage genocidal war over the whole world...hmm|

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quote:

Originally posted by Juricimo c'mon you cant get a gun here that easy man its just as strict if not stricter to get guns here...like i said earlier easier to get a gun off the street i can get one in about a day if i wanted one.... so the above statements (opinions) are just that: opinions.

dude, you can buy fucking guns in a bigg shopping mall for christ sake!!!! and don't say this isn't true, I've been to the U.S. 2 times and I saw it with my own eyes.

quote:

Originally posted by Juricimo another thing is why not be able to defend when a buster comes up to you and wants to shoot you. what r u gonna do call 911? haha. nope you're gonna shoot the mothafucka that is threathening your life that's what you're gonna do. survival of the fittest.

and that is where the problem starts in the U.S. that man bought a gun because it is so fucking easy to get one. I don't even have the slightest idea where I can buy a gun here in Holland, in Amerika you have a gunshop in every village (as a matter of speaking)

when that guy didn't have that easy access to a gun he wouldn't have one probably, and you wouldn't have one either. So you get robbed, but you have your life, and that's what counts.

how would you feel when you shot a guy and then you found out his gun wasn't even loaded and he only used it to get money from ya and he had no intension of hurting you?? and you fucking KILLED him!!

quote:

Originally posted by Juricimo so people in europe dont have guns? c'mon now another absurd statement...people kill people all over planet earth..no different in europe man. >JM<

no, the chances of getting shot in Europe are very small, and when I say very small it really is very small, the only thing that could happen in Europe (when you do nothing wrong) is being stabbed with a knife, and that chance is also very slim

why does everyone in the U.S. is so keen on having a gun, they only bring trouble, for everyone. What if you are being held at gunpoint by someone who is robbing you, you don't have a gun so he probably won't kill you, when you have a gun and you take it out of your pocket he will shoot you. And you get killed... simple as that

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