hey eveyone,

ok first off lets keep this thread friendly. i know we all have our religious ideals, but lets try to keep those out of the dicussion. instead i would like to talk about proof of actual events in the bible. these of course do not have to support religion, but they can if they do..so lets here some of the historical facts about what possibly lead to some of the events in the bible.

i'll start with one of the most familiar story's...moses.

ok so the story basically goes like this. moses warns the king to let the jews go, king says no, then follows are the plagues of egypt. after that moses leads to jews across the red sea, which swallows the pursuing forces. then they wonder around the desert for a while and then they come to the mountain of god. moses climbs the mountain talks to god and recieves the ten comandments.

ok so here could be some proof that some of these events are actually true. all of these are connected so i hope that it doesn't get too confusing.

first, the plagues of egypt... in the 5th or 6th century i forget which one, there was a volcanic eruption on the island of santini, north of crete. this eruption, which has been estimated in comparison to the mt saint helens eruption in the eighties to be 1000x more powerful, could have caused these "plagues." when comparing to the mt st helens eruption...you had similar things happen i.e. the sky turned black...frogs everywhere...dead animal carcuses from the blast etc. now giving the sheer size of the eruption on santini, of course these things would be increased.

as far as the splitting the red sea and everything. well first off, it isn't the red sea. in earlier renditions the hebrew word "suph" was used which translates to "sea of reed" which over time was, over time misinterpreted into sea of red. this of course leads to the question...well were was that then. it seems that the coast of egypt has reeds all along it so it is now believed that do to a tital wave caused by this eruption on santini...first the water withdrew and then of course the wave came. there is evidence to support this theory because pomus, formed from volcanic blasts, was found on the the egyptian coast and dated and matched to the eruption on santini.

now the wondering in the desert. there hasn't been much proof that a huge mass of people have migrated across the desert, but new evidence is coming up now that digs have been allowed in what used to be a hostal spot of the world.

as far as the mt of god...it has always been assumed that well mt sinai is the tallest that must be it...but there is new evidence that a mountain to the north east could actually be the mountain. on the egypt-irseal border there is a mountain called mt karkom...which translates into mt of god. if you remeber from sunday school...when moses climbs the mountain he talks to god through the burning bush blah blah and before he goes back down he builds an alter with 12 standing stones one for each of the tribes of egypt or something to that effect. well on the top of this plateau they found a small rock alter consisting of 12 standing rocks that has been dated to 2000 years ago. there is some time discrepency to that which happened in the bible, but still very interesting. also at the base of this mountain there are small circular encampments and also near the site there has been found a small pictopragh which closely resembles the two stone tablets that have the commandments on them. further, this picture is drawn so that these tablets are diveded into exactly ten sections.

i don't know how everyone feels about this kinda stuff, ubt i think that it is so interesting. i have a lot of other stuff that i'll post eventually, but for now...what else have you guys heard?

oh and in regards to the burning bush...i forgot the name of the plant, but there is a bush in the middle east that produces a natural oil that is flammable and has been known to combust in extreme heat. all this stuff is so interesting.

Last edited by Floorfiller on Dec-31-2002 at 18:49

ya i've heard most of that stuff... btw the island is called santorini and its one of the most beautiful places on earth, everyone should go there if they can, Ios, an island nearby is like a mini ibiza so might as well stop there too...

i do belive the bible is a form of history book, although the fault i see with it being that instead of it being written down in incedent format it is told as a tale and explanations are given to why something happened, thats why i feel the bible is subjective not objective. i belive on the whole the events took place however through lore and handed down speech they have morphed into powerful tales of myth.

people at the time had no conception of science, that didnt come about till until the first natural philosophers of greece (300 BC) such as Anaxagoras and Democritus. so what was left for the people was to come up for crazy stories that would explain natural phenomina. serisouly consider yourself at that time in age, no one knew what caused rain, people rationally assumed there was some sort of God up there throwing around a huge bucket of water. poeple didnt know the sun was a giant burning 'rock' of gas that we circled around, they rationally assumed there was a god who put a beam of light that moved across the sky. its because of this "rationalization", which today seems absurd, that the bible is filled with lavish explanations of why things happened and infact makes it subjective.

what'd im curious to know is what kind of scientific explanation there could be for Mary to get pregant with jesus when she was a virgin, and how the heck was jesus able to walk on water and turn water into wine.

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If God is the answer, it must have been a very stupid question.

quote:

Originally posted by Izzy ya i've heard most of that stuff... btw the island is called santorini and its one of the most beautiful places on earth, everyone should go there if they can, Ios, an island nearby is like a mini ibiza so might as well stop there too... i do belive the bible is a form of history book, although the fault i see with it being that instead of it being written down in incedent format it is told as a tale and explanations are given to why something happened, thats why i feel the bible is subjective not objective. i belive on the whole the events took place however through lore and handed down speech they have morphed into powerful tales of myth. people at the time had no conception of science, that didnt come about till until the first natural philosophers of greece (300 BC) such as Anaxagoras and Democritus. so what was left for the people was to come up for crazy stories that would explain natural phenomina. serisouly consider yourself at that time in age, no one knew what caused rain, people rationally assumed there was some sort of God up there throwing around a huge bucket of water. poeple didnt know the sun was a giant burning 'rock' of gas that we circled around, they rationally assumed there was a god who put a beam of light that moved across the sky. its because of this "rationalization", which today seems absurd, that the bible is filled with lavish explanations of why things happened and infact makes it subjective. what'd im curious to know is what kind of scientific explanation there could be for Mary to get pregant with jesus when she was a virgin, and how the heck was jesus able to walk on water and turn water into wine.

hehehe yeah santorini. you're a smart guy izzy. i think the bible is a great historical text and thats why...even though i'm not religious i've studied it. and yeah i would also like to know about that stuff hehe.

quote:

Originally posted by Izzy what'd im curious to know is what kind of scientific explanation there could be for Mary to get pregant with jesus when she was a virgin, and how the heck was jesus able to walk on water and turn water into wine.

i suppose the NT was the first ever science fiction book

kay im off
happy new year, im gonna drink my head off now!!

___________________
"Those are my principles, if you don't like them... well, I have others.”

I agree with Izzy in that certain things that are portrayed in the bible might have happened in realistic form.. and have been morphed into extravagant tales of myth. But there are things like the parting of the red sea that i think are ridiculous..and Jesus walking on water. I do however belive that a man by the name of Jesus could have existed and had a strong religious following.. But i dont beleive the Jesus described in any religious text. I see him as more of a historical figure.. like Julius Ceasar

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"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
-MARCO V

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King I agree with Izzy in that certain things that are portrayed in the bible might have happened in realistic form.. and have been morphed into extravagant tales of myth. But there are things like the parting of the red sea that i think are ridiculous..and Jesus walking on water. I do however belive that a man by the name of Jesus could have existed and had a strong religious following.. But i dont beleive the Jesus described in any religious text. I see him as more of a historical figure.. like Julius Ceasar

didn't you read the my post? what do you think about that perhaps beings were that all came from? i think it makes a lot of sense, but its just mis interpreted into religious crap.

LOOOoooooool
too drunk man#lol
ebeer to much
happy new year
haahha

___________________
"Those are my principles, if you don't like them... well, I have others.”