intresting.... thanks
but dude when you play you gotta tweak those eqs...

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Originally posted by tamtui So if you are not getting enough bass the problem usually lies whithin the mixer. Most Dj mixers like entry level vestax, gemini's, or american DJ have a bright sound. What this means is that the sound that is going to your amp is mostly high's and the lows are not as punchy.

uh that's why you EQ !

quote:

Originally posted by tamtui This is what I recommend put an APHEX 204 with big bottom or Behringer Tube Ultrafex between your mixer and the amp. These processors make the bass punchy and the highs more smooth. They will also not overload your amp. You will notice the difference right away and your sound will improve dramatically.

and these items are meant for Vocals and instruments, while they can be used for the application you are suggesting the result will NOT be significant.

The problem is the output : not enough bass in the speakers.

You can always decide to play around that with gimmicky stuff designed for the dj market such as fake BBE Bass enhancers and crap which are horrible cause they're ubber crap, most of them don't have XLR inputs and hummm more issues come with that and the units REALLY SUCK

NOW, another way is that when you setup everything you run PINK NOISE ( you know what that is right ? ) have the whole setup amps EQs set to the necessary level. or by ear tweaking trying to achive a nice eq curve that suits your *mood*.

one other way and maybe the best is if you seriously want more bass have them on subs ! but don't forget amp Equalizers and such.

this is quite a delicate subject

that's why i have a 14 band stereo eq in my setup along with the eq on my mixer

the problem could also lie in the fact that some speakers just don't pump like others do
you might want to look into a powered sub or something like that
my speakers are perfect for my setup, if anything, they're a little bass-heavy, but that's why i eq to get the sound i want out of my speakers

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quote:

uh that's why you EQ !

Most DJ mixers do not have parametric equalizers. This is because the manufacturer decided to set the mid range at the factory usually around 2khz. If you look on a typical mackie mixer it actually says 2.5khz for the mid frequency. Bass frequency is usually set to 80hz.

so the fact of matter is that when you boost the bass on a DJ mixer you are actually boosting the level at 80hz. This is bad and can overload an amp very easily.

The frequency that gives you that thump or banging beat is usually at about 150hz. So technically if you had a parametric eq. you can find that frequency and boost it a bit. However, I am suggesting the alternative. To put an Aphex 204 w/Big Bottom in between your mixer and amp (via XLR/1/4" line inputs). On this device (which is an industry standard and can be found in just about every professional studio in the world) you can dial the frequency you want to "enhance" in this case 150hz and mix in the processor effect. This psychoacoutic processor in turn cleans up your bass and makes it come out of your speakers with a vengance without overloading your amps.

If you don't believe that this will dramatically improve your bassy thumps do a test. I did and found very significant results.

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Off the top of my head I can say that the following mixers probably don't need this sort of solution because they reproduce a fat punchy bass and have amazing clarity.


Rane MP2016
Stanton VRM-10
Vestax R-1
Urei
Allen & Heath Xone 464

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boosting the bass on the eq will only hurt your mixer if you constantly do this under overloading conditions. If you lower the gain and increase the bass eq so that your channel and main out are not overloading, then you will not have a problem with hurting your mixer, and you shouldn't clip your music either. Then use the amp (that's what it's there for in the first place right) to amplify the signal. Turn up the volume after it leaves your mixer and there will be no problem with hurting your equip.

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quote:

Originally posted by Dj Flesch boosting the bass on the eq will only hurt your mixer if you constantly do this under overloading conditions. If you lower the gain and increase the bass eq so that your channel and main out are not overloading, then you will not have a problem with hurting your mixer, and you shouldn't clip your music either. Then use the amp (that's what it's there for in the first place right) to amplify the signal. Turn up the volume after it leaves your mixer and there will be no problem with hurting your equip.

your mixers audio components are in essence *unkillable* ( I'm not talking faders and mechanical components )

The best way to procede when mixing is having maximum output on the given faders, cause you DO NOT want to amplify a low volume signal it causes saturation and distortion.


Then again use common sense and know when your mixer is saturating for real cause what's indicated on the vu meters is usually ubber crap cause their range isn't wide.



and Tatuim
that sounds cute :
This psychoacoutic processor in turn cleans up your bass and makes it come out of your speakers with a vengance without overloading your amps.
uh ? so it only affects my thoughts? ( psychoacoustic )

To put an Aphex 204 w/Big Bottom in between your mixer and amp (via XLR/1/4" line inputs). On this device (which is an industry standard and can be found in just about every professional studio in the world) you can dial the frequency you want to "enhance" in this case 150hz and mix in the processor effect.

Well well well ... it's used for vocals and instruments, but like I personnaly believe it's an over rated item in the music industry hence a reason why it's not used as much as it used to be cause the hype has gone away......
I've used this in live sound setups ( concert type ) on vocals and stuff and can't say I've never felt it was worth it
Now it is true I never used it in a dj setup and I see how theorically it could make a difference. I'll give it a try someday if I can get my hands on one of these again cause all those that I knew had ones don't anymore.
It's a thing that's like tube amps ... over hype and too little enhancement for the cost.

Tamtui = Springy Legs in Chinese

I'm going to convince Glow to put an Aphex 204 for PVD in December.

Just to see if it makes a difference.

Peace

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hmmm...i just read a quick review on the aphex 204 and i wasn't mistaken in remembering that it is indeed an outboard processor used to restore old recordings. In theory, yea, this would be ideal in giving trance/techno more bass thump, but I don't think it's the right way to go about it, UNLESS your spinning medium (be it vinyl or cd) is badly recorded. why? because if you apply this to recordings that had no problems to begin with, you'll be wrecking what the artist wanted you to hear and processing the bass after the recording is very obvious. (this being said in the perspective of a more purist musical sense.)

in a club environment, yea, everyone loves bass, but too much is no fun unless you are drugged out, have bad ears, or are just plainly addicted to bass. techno/trance will really become the '4 to the floor' music everyone complains about and all the musicality will be lost.

the solution? not to lower the gain and boost the bass on the mixer, (low gain means lost information in the signal flow) but have good speakers, a good amp, compressors, gates, outboard eqs for shaping NOT falsely adding to the sound, and good placement of the speakers.

that being said...tell me if you do get Glow to add the aphex204 and how it goes if they do. haha.

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I hear what you are saying about messing with the original recording.

That would def happen if you apply the Aphex with the settings all the way up. But not if you just tune it a bit. The thing has a couple of parameters so that won't happen.

That being said let's compare a cheap vestax mixer with bright sound and no significant bottom end to the vestax R-1 wich costs $2300 or something ridiculous like that. The R-1 cost that much specifically for it's clarity and fat bottom end. You could look at it as a mixer/processor all-in-one. People buy this mixer because they can get away with less outboard processors specially those that enhance the bass.

However, from personal experience and comparison I can hook up a cheap vestax to an aphex 204 and achieve a very similar sound to the R-1. If you can do a comparison A-B.

As far as the Aphex being installed at Glow...I handed Pete the Aphex a few days ago and he said he will give it to his engineer.

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