Im pretty devestated right now..and..its a long story..but it also has to do with the fact of limited expression. I know this girl for 3 years now, from Israel, via Internet..and we wrote each other, and talked on the phone and what not..and I find myself imprisoned when having to TALK about the things I use to write. Or when I have to switch from English to Hebrew. And this leads me to the question of how much is actually taken away from us when using, even our native, language. I think Wittgenstein was the dude philosophying about this problem but what do u personally think? Do you sometimes feel limited? Can u express yourself in one way better than in the other? How do u think can the optimal/ideal way of expressing one's thoughts and ideas be achieved? Or should I cut that bullshit and deal with my problems in form of diary writing?
maybe yes

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"Those are my principles, if you don't like them... well, I have others.”

hell yeah i feel a lot limited when i have to express myself in english , as you all know it's not my native language nor my second one and i do my best to express my ideas and stuff , but i still find it difficult to debate or to clearly express my ideas specially here

i have a weird problem also , when i talk to someone who speaks arabic only i have the bad habit of thinking in french then expressing my ideas in arabic , sometimes i can't even find the words

btw TranceGiant your english is perfect as fuck waaaay better than a lot of non-anglo TAs

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"A style that's impossible to define. Prog? Hardly. Tech house? Not boring enough. It's like trippy twisted acid house but deep and funky. See, I told you - impossible."

i know what you mean! sometimes its as if they didnt invent enough words. example:
I love my girlfried
I love my mom
I love ice cream
in my view those are all different meanings of the word love but we still have only one word to use

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If God is the answer, it must have been a very stupid question.

French is my mother tongue. I have been losing my French steadily because I live in a (mostly) English culture. Before my French was just as good as my English, now my English is far superior. I even think in English now which can make a French conversation difficult. I must make the effort.

Just by reading some of you guys's posts, its hard to tell english isn't your native language. On an off topic, in other countries what language do people start learning there secondary language? It seems like everyone from outside the U.S, esspecially Europe speaks at least 2 languages fluently, while here most people here speak one fluently, and have a really really broken second language.

ehh..I was actually talking more generally. It's obvious that one won't express himself in any given language in such a clear form as in his native language. But in my opinion even your own language, mother tounge, the one you speak fluently and perfectly limits you. The prison is bigger, you got a lot more space to run around but ultimately you'll face a wall. Izzy gave a good example. Love....there's no common definition hence no language will give u a proper word. Basically all emotional things running through your mind..feelings..sentiments..sometimes memories are very hard to express verbally. That's where art comes into play.
Another thing that affects communication is the ambiguous nature of many many words. Again "love" is a perfect example.

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"Those are my principles, if you don't like them... well, I have others.”

Words cannot describe how much I disagree with your sentiments.

Im still curious as fuck so please give it a try at least

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"Those are my principles, if you don't like them... well, I have others.”

Words and language do limit our sense of expression. When asked "how was your day?" I am unable to provide an enitrely accurate description. The description given is usually very general and doesn't include the extent of everything that happened. The description is filled with inaccuracies and unintended omissions. This suggests that words are a bad substitute for actual experience, just as you cannot get wet in the word "water," or fed with the word "food."

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sig edited: no political imagery allowed. please reref to the sig guidelines

I don't think anyone ever suggested words could be a substitute for actual experience, their purpose is to convey thoughts and ideas.

At the risk of sounding like a pedant, I think when people ask "how was your day?" they don't want a full and detailed summary of your day, but rather a brief overview. If you really wished, you could guide them through the experiences of your day - indeed it would take some considerable time, but then a day lasts 24 hours.

Nadi, what exactly do you mean when you say that most Americans can speak a "really really broken second language". When it comes to languages and education, I was of the understanding that your nation ranked similarly to mine - ie rubbish. The average person in England cannot speak anything other than English. Not even a second language badly. All most people know is a few token words like "bonjour" and "hola" and whatever else they've heard on the TV or read on a menu, and I would not describe that as really broken, but as nothing at all. It is mandatory for everyone in the country to learn a language (usually French or German) for 5 years at least while at secondary school. In my case I learnt French, and after five years I couldn't hold even the most basic conversations with a Frenchman because the teaching was rubbish and the classes were a raucous affair. I'd be hopeless at understanding them if they spoke at normal speed - everyone in my class was the same. I find it hard to believe the situation is any better in the states. In total I probably know the best part of 100 German words (from studying history etc), but I wouldn't tell anyone I speak "really really broken German", I cannot speak it at all. Is this what you were saying, or are you saying that the situation isn't so bad over there?

Language is merely a compression mechanism for ideas. It's normal, though unforunate, to lose some quality.

speaking of languages, I grew up in France and french being possibly considered talking it at the age of five, english around the age of 8.

We spoke english at home, and I was comfortable with it and still am now that I am at home.

I occasionaly forget words in one or the other language, but from an emotional point of view, this is odd, english is more free flowing so to speak , and french is more to express my deepest emotions!? get it ?


I think the way I become affected and start to think in one language is totally in relation with my location ..... right now I never think in French , or occasionaly like if I'm really tired or having some odd dreams but yeah after living here one year I'm already stumbling on certain words in french


like I used to be super good at expressing myself in french, but no worries I'm coming back