quote:

[i][b] It doesn't look all that good for the Palestinian cause of a seperate political state,...

palestenian cause? hmmm...what about Israeli cause?

>JM<

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Originally posted by JM palestenian cause? hmmm...what about Israeli cause? >JM<

Pretty much fucks theirs as well as far as I can see. It only lends itself to more death on both sides.

study the israeli history of the last decade and you'll understand why no1 else but Sharon could win yesterday.

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Originally posted by TranceGiant study the israeli history of the last decade and you'll understand why no1 else but Sharon could win yesterday.

Same argument could be made for the other side. No way in hell a man more peaceful than Arafat will be "elected".

Sad....just sad.

These two sides will fight each other for the next 100 years. A "solution" could only be reached with massive UN interference, but thats not gonna happen.
Two things are clear:
1. no way you could have one state, you need two, one for either side. but those states should be a united region, like west is yours and east is theirs, not spots here and there.
2. look at the actual situation. There are israeli settler spots everywhere in palestinian territory. how in the hell could you install a palestinian state there? not gonna happen.

as sad as it is thats it.

___________________
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness - only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate - only love can do that... The chain reaction of evil--hate begetting hate, wars producing more wars--must be broken, or we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

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Originally posted by TranceGiant study the israeli history of the last decade and you'll understand why no1 else but Sharon could win yesterday.

What about Yitzhak Rabin (if he was still alive)?

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final results (as of 9/29)
seats in parliment (Current Knesset in brackets):
Likud (19) - 37
Labor (25) - 19
Shinui (6) - 15
Shas (17) - 11
Meretz (10) - 6
National Union (8) - 7
NRP (5) - 5
UTJ (5) - 5
Yisrael B’Aliyah (6) - 2
Ra’am (1) - 2
Hadash (4) - 4
Balad (2) - 3
One Nation (2) - 4
Turnout: 68.5 percent (lowest in israeli history - but still well above american standards )

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What about Yitzhak Rabin (if he was still alive)?

seeing as it is general acceptance that Peres and Barak as prime minesters lived to carry out Rabin's legacy and both failed, then not really likely they would have picked him over Sharon during this current election.

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quote:

Originally posted by cweb 2. look at the actual situation. There are israeli settler spots everywhere in palestinian territory. how in the hell could you install a palestinian state there? not gonna happen. as sad as it is thats it.

this is something i kinda have a problem with, i see a double standard. assuming the settlers decided they want to live inside what would be a new palestinian country why couldnt they just stay and become palestinian citizens, or forgniers living in palestine (just as im living in the US)?
just like there are many arab cities in israel, why cant there be jewish/israeli towns in future palestine? does the future palestine have to be empty of all jews or something?

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If God is the answer, it must have been a very stupid question.

Of course no political settlers could stay in a palestinian state and become citizens of this country, but in reality, who will dare this?
BUT those settlements i spoke of, are political settlements installed in the last couple of years. And those settlers are now protected by the Israeli government. In an autonom state, those soldier would dissapear, and the settlers would be left alone.

As sad as it is, some of the priniciples of modern world (live where you want) must be broken in this case. Palestinans should live in Palestina, Israelis should live in Israel. And then set hard frontiers. Its sad, but in this hatred situation thats the only way (of course there are problems with finding such two states, becuase, both groups are religously bent to some places).

___________________
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness - only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate - only love can do that... The chain reaction of evil--hate begetting hate, wars producing more wars--must be broken, or we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

quote:

Originally posted by cweb As sad as it is, some of the priniciples of modern world (live where you want) must be broken in this case. Palestinans should live in Palestina, Israelis should live in Israel. And then set hard frontiers. Its sad, but in this hatred situation thats the only way (of course there are problems with finding such two states, becuase, both groups are religously bent to some places).

You still need to relate to the topic of Israeli Arabs (Are they not Palestinian as well?) staying in Israeli territory after the dividing to 2 states. Relate that to the refugees as well.


Personally I though these elections sucked, with or without regard to the results ... If you would have lived in Israel, yo would see how the nation is being torn apart... So many small parties, I would personally might not vote if I could, so many options, most of them full of bullshit.

Basically the big change in these elections is the rising of the Shinui (Change) party, which are basically a modern-right party that acts mainly on changing internal policy - Mainly reducing the financial privilleges orthodox religous Jews get over here ... Lately the battle between the secular and the religious (Mainly orthodox) in the country have peaked, and people are tired of the shitty financial state. Shinui rose from a 6 mandat party to 15, making it the third biggest party.

Basically 2 politicians are well known (IE have the reputation) for not selling bullshit in this country, these are Labor leader Mitzna and Shinui leader Lapid .
Mitzna promised not to join Sharon to form a united government as they did when the leader was Benjamin Ben Eliezzer.
Lapid promised not to join a government with orthodox Jews parties in it, IE Sharons upcoming one.

Sharon currently has 68 parlament members in the parties that form the new government with him. For now he is stable but I believe both Mitzna and Lapid's charismatic abilities will do their charm with time, as well as counting the fact that the longer a PM is in his job, the less popular he gets (The kind of people we are ... Don't get me started) and on top of that the being of the new government an extremist right winged one, this government will not stay the way it is for too long.

And just to show you how much people didn't give a fuck about these elections, about 70% of the potential voters voted ... The lowest rate ever.

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