I dont understand how people can be so stupid, and ignorant, to say "I dont know how to solve it, but i know this way is wrong"

The worst was in greece, i think when an anti war protest turned violent, how does that make sence?

That was interesting. Many different ideas about the war.

Here is an idea. There are two views that may underly the opinions of anti-war and pro-war protestors;

Pro-War: The end objective justify the means.

Anti-War: The end objective does not justify the means.


Protestors are lucky to have their 'right' to protest. In a country like Iraq, protesting or bad mouthing the dictator will get you killed. We dont understand what the total Iraqi population is thinking about the war because they cannot express their views. So how do the Protestors know what is right for the Iraqi people?

One last thought: Protesting does not change a thing in this political world. It will not change the president's choice about the war either.


To any protestor out there: What is your purpose of demonstrating, why waste your time and do you think you will change the mind of a government?

i am against this war..and i stated my reasons in various threads.however living in america..i do not protest because i know its worthless..i might see how it could work in other countries in maybe pressuring thier goverment to take a stand against this war or take actions..and another thing if u know ur opinion wont make a difference should u shut up? offcourse not..for example u criticize the protestors..will that make em protest anyless? nope..then according to u..u should shut up otherwise u r a hipocrate.

i posted it here in one of the war threads about a month ago.

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Well, as an antiwar protester and even sometimes organizer of protests, i can tell you why i do what i do.

it DOES have an effect. I believe the US would have attacked much earlier if it were not for the massive protests on march 15th, and february 15th.

you can say "well, they attacked anyway, the protests only delayed the inevitable" and you would be right. However, this is only true because of the outright arrogance and lack of foresight of George Bush ignoring the United Nations, and violating not only International but US law.

the worldwide protests, particularly in france, germany, and spain are what caused the impasse in the US. If George Bush had followed international law, the protests WOULD have stopped the war.

The massive protests in Turkey are what stopped the Americans from using their soil to launch an attack.

The massive protests in Canada are what prompted Jean Chretien to not support the war, and even introduce another resolution to the UN (which was rejected by the war hungry US and UK.) I personally was present at a small city council meeting where our city passed a resolution for canada not to support the war without a second UN resolution. similar resolutions were passed in many cities.

Even now, after the war, i still participate in rallys and vigils. Around the world the protests have not stopped, and are in fact growing.

I also publish a website:
http://www27.brinkster.com/antiwar/
helping to organize people in my area.

I have committed myself to not buying american products, or gasoline or oil while this conflict is still on. The insurance on my car comes off this weekend.

We ARE making a difference, and we will NOT give up.

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Fellas, I would just like to say that whether or not one supports this war or not, pretty much all of us have the same common goal in mind: that is, a world which is safe for all of us to go about our daily lives in. All of us just have differences in opinion in how to accomplish this collective goal. Regardless, we do have one thing that unites us in this forum: TRANCE!

Dmatrox, good point. As one of those who are opposed to this war, I do think the costs will greatly exceed the ends in this situation, and that there are other more constructive and less destructive means with which to resolve this conflict.

There are more effective ways to having your views be taken into serious account by the government than mass demonstrations, but these protests are the most visible way to get a message across, even if the intended recipient might not want to listen. I write letters every so often to my senators and representative, and even the White House sometimes, if I hear about any acts or laws up for approval (such as the RAVE ACT last year) that I might oppose. For pretty much every letter I have sent my representative, he (or his office) has replied, thanking me for my interest and stating their view on the matter. So as jaded as we all may be, let it be known that democracy still does work, and congressmen do care about pleasing their voting constituents, because they need their votes!

Mr. Smith, great post as always

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeJulez Fellas, I would just like to say that whether or not one supports this war or not, pretty much all of us have the same common goal in mind: that is, a world which is safe for all of us to go about our daily lives in. All of us just have differences in opinion in how to accomplish this collective goal. Regardless, we do have one thing that unites us in this forum: TRANCE!

amen!

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeJulez For pretty much every letter I have sent my representative, he (or his office) has replied, thanking me for my interest and stating their view on the matter. So as jaded as we all may be, let it be known that democracy still does work, and congressmen do care about pleasing their voting constituents, because they need their votes!

well.. i am quite jaded, i believe those are mostly form letters. But in the case of thousands of letters coming across the desk of a politician, i am sure it makes a difference.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeJulez Mr. Smith, great post as always

*beams*

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the point of the video clip was to show that the anti war protesters do not understand what they are protesting. Not that protesting doesn't have any affect.

JohnSmith: Maybe you would like to take a stab at some of those questions?

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"Your Watching MTV. The cool, Brainwashing, 12 year old and younger station that hides behind a slick image. We're so cool that we decide what is cool, and now MTV News, the news that single-handedly is dumbing down our country. Which is Cool."

--Adam Freeland - Big Wednesday

Classic SporTrance. Thanks for the link.

quote:

Originally posted by BTG I dont understand how people can be so stupid, and ignorant, to say "I dont know how to solve it, but i know this way is wrong" The worst was in greece, i think when an anti war protest turned violent, how does that make sence?

The Greeks seems to be going nuts when it comes to this.

Yep.

If you're going to go out and protest, you might as well know what they hell you're protesting about...

I think Bush is a pig. He and his buddies are the main reason why Houston is the most polluted city (surpassing LA which has 3X the population) in the country.
He backed out of the Kyoto treaty, and advocated drilling for oil in a wildlife refuge when even 8 or 9 senators in his own party had enough of a conscience to oppose him. But, you don't see me out there waiving a sign pretending like I know more than the world community about the Iraqi situation. Lets all just hope it's over soon.....

Violence is probably the only thing he (Saddam) understands...
The threat of violence is the only reason that he let inspectors back in in the first place, but at the same time you have to question whether we would be attacking a country that didn't have the world's second largest proven reserves of crude oil.

Here's another protester getting 0nw3d:

http://komo1000news.com/audio/kvi_aircheck_031003.mp3

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quote:

Originally posted by JohnSmith The massive protests in Canada are what prompted Jean Chretien to not support the war, and even introduce another resolution to the UN (which was rejected by the war hungry US and UK.) I personally was present at a small city council meeting where our city passed a resolution for canada not to support the war without a second UN resolution. similar resolutions were passed in many cities. My city did the same thing I also publish a website: http://www27.brinkster.com/antiwar/ helping to organize people in my area. I have committed myself to not buying american products, or gasoline or oil while this conflict is still on. The insurance on my car comes off this weekend. Riding a bike eh??? Respect to that man. I wish where I live were more compact like San Fran or Amsterdam, so I could ride a bike more too.

Here's a question for you though:
How would you feel if you had a brother/cousin/wife/gf/loved one over there, and knew that they wouldn't be able to come back home until they accomplished their "mission?"

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Last edited by DaveSZ on Mar-24-2003 at 23:56