For any of those as obsessed with Brave New World, 1984, Gattaca and the like, I am undertaking what will (hopefully) become a vast project of compiling a detailed projection of what a dystopian future (~2030). I realize there is much more of an emphasis on the present in these forums, but I am curious as to some of your thoughts on potentially dark outcomes in the future of our society.

Without constraining your thoughts too much, I am looking more for details (no detail being to small) rather than over arching themes. For example, in the movie Gattaca humans are all bred within laboratories where their genes are optimized to capture their "maximum" potential.

Thanks in advance for any input.

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Lost Souls

Can't go wrong with omnipresent, big brother angle ala 1984.
The world is getting smaller is seems and its amazing (at least to me) how physical gaps between countries almost mean nothing these days; especially in the area of political philosophy and propaganda.

To me, the Internet is the greatest source of 'cry-wolfism' (yea I made that up) there is.
One day, an important event will happen that will spread like wild-fire across the net and people will choose to be blissfully ignorant because of their numbness to yea another piece of information (or disinformation for that matter).
Will the bloated Internet vaccinate our curiosity for the truth?

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"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Can't go wrong with omnipresent, big brother angle ala 1984. The world is getting smaller is seems and its amazing (at least to me) how physical gaps between countries almost mean nothing these days; especially in the area of political philosophy and propaganda.

While I do agree the (US) gov't will play a larger role in the future for its citizens, I don't buy the totalitarian/ big brother state. Rather, I see oppression stemming from corporations and consumerism. That is, the people enslave themselves, rather than directly through a head in the government.

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Lost Souls

quote:

Originally posted by kush paintings While I do agree the (US) gov't will play a larger role in the future for its citizens, I don't buy the totalitarian/ big brother state. Rather, I see oppression stemming from corporations and consumerism. That is, the people enslave themselves, rather than directly through a head in the government.

Something like Black Watch on a large local scale?

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by kush paintings While I do agree the (US) gov't will play a larger role in the future for its citizens, I don't buy the totalitarian/ big brother state. Rather, I see oppression stemming from corporations and consumerism. That is, the people enslave themselves, rather than directly through a head in the government.

I believe that we're going to see a combined synthesis of 1984 and Brave New World.

Anyway, Big Brother is already here under the guise of National Security so it's just a matter of time before they really clamp down. I'm sure we'll see roundups of political dissidents (like myself) and the like after the next terrorist attack but by that time it will be too late anyway because once Martial Law is fully enacted our government will already have taken control of all forms of communication - as is evident by all of the Executive Orders that Dubya has been feverishly signing which pertain to COG.

Also, the family unit is already in the process of being destroyed and in due time people will be further conditioned to look towards Big Brother as their family unit.

People are going to love him, btw.

I would say that you need look no further than the present to get a firm understanding of how the dystopian present has come to exist, what technologies propel it forward, etc.

The supreme court continues to allow unending access to law enforcement to use incredibly undemocratic devices to monitor the public (think: audio surveillence, visual imaging through walls, heat detection, satellite monitoring, etc etc), the federal government has compiled databases of all of your private access mediums (think: cell phone records, web browsing, e-mail), the electoral process is bugged by hackable voting machines and tendencies, the power structure of the government itself has become constipated with the backup of electoral nominations, people have become complacent on TV/Internet/Prescription drugs, there are laws regulating laws regulating laws (what new powers can the president have? what can we redefine 'torture' as), the cops have street signs up (in my area at least) urging you to report your neighbors for crimes to make money (capitalist gestapo ftl), dissenters are silenced in rallies/interviews/political events, corporations both foreign and local have amassed great power through banks and monopolistic hedonism while simultaneously suppressing the little guy from ever reaching the same stature via federal gag systems like the FDA, DEA (do you really think they don't allow you to use certain chemicals because of the drug trade? or as if they care about your personal safety in a system where health care makes billions from the ill? you're a potential risk to the big pharmers if you discover something new that can actually help people, so how do they limit that possibility? at the base sources of all chemical experimentation: solvents/acids/bases), etc etc etc

I suppose, as per the usual, this doesn't matter to those who wish to just exist. But to anyone who wants to truly taste what it means to be free, we are in a rather sad state of "big brother" affairs at the moment, except that big brother has turned out to be mostly the whole family.

I'm going to paint a different picture.

2010
The US economy falls into a depression worse then what happened in the '20s. A confused population thrashes out at anything that can be called different. Xenophobia and regional distrust skyrocket because travel is heavily restricted due to the exorbanent price of fuel.

2015
The continueing economic down turn breads successionist movements as the South, the North East, Texas, and the West Coast all form multi state unions. The US federal funding for foreign fighting plummets and the returning security contractors seek work with the newly created unions.

2020
Strapped for resources the unions begin fighting and North America decends into a civil war.

2025
Nothing has been resolved but the fighting continues. Life in the cities becomes more dangerous then living any where else in the country. Not only are the cities the prime military targets but they are also crippled by speratic food deliveries and frequent power outages.

quote:

Originally posted by atbell I'm going to paint a different picture. 2010 The US economy falls into a depression worse then what happened in the '20s. A confused population thrashes out at anything that can be called different. Xenophobia and regional distrust skyrocket because travel is heavily restricted due to the exorbanent price of fuel. 2015 The continueing economic down turn breads successionist movements as the South, the North East, Texas, and the West Coast all form multi state unions. The US federal funding for foreign fighting plummets and the returning security contractors seek work with the newly created unions. 2020 Strapped for resources the unions begin fighting and North America decends into a civil war. 2025 Nothing has been resolved but the fighting continues. Life in the cities becomes more dangerous then living any where else in the country. Not only are the cities the prime military targets but they are also crippled by speratic food deliveries and frequent power outages.

Reminds me of V for Vendetta

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X I believe that we're going to see a combined synthesis of 1984 and Brave New World. Anyway, Big Brother is already here under the guise of National Security so it's just a matter of time before they really clamp down. I'm sure we'll see roundups of political dissidents (like myself) and the like after the next terrorist attack but by that time it will be too late anyway because once Martial Law is fully enacted our government will already have taken control of all forms of communication - as is evident by all of the Executive Orders that Dubya has been feverishly signing which pertain to COG. Also, the family unit is already in the process of being destroyed and in due time people will be further conditioned to look towards Big Brother as their family unit. People are going to love him, btw.

Interesting thoughts here. I still am not buying the Big Brother presented in 1984 and many, many other dystopias. Totalitarian states have a tendency to implode on themselves, so I do not see it being a sustainable prediction. Although I realize this is a poor source for information, the wikepedia article on 'dystopia' makes some excellent points in this regard.

While it is tempting to view ourselves as martyrs in the future, I have an incredibly difficult time seeing mass round ups of political dissidents. My first point, people will enslave themselves through their own selfish economic motivations, can serve as a substitute for your outlook. Rather than a government forcing a heavy hand on its citizens, and therefore arousing a greater chance for revolution, I believe those in power will be wise enough to recognize the most efficient way to create a conformist society is through capitalism (and therefore Democracy, at least on some level, is kept intact).

If, for example, a conglomerate can control the hiring practices and regulations of all its different divisions, they can refuse to hire anyone with a history of protesting or extreme politics. This information can be gathered through the increasingly invasive internet (where corporations, not the government, are the ones responsible for the spread of your personal information). So, if political dissidents cannot find a job, they will have no economic means to live in "modern" society and will be forced either into impoverished, marginalized sections of the country, or to move to another country where they are not viewed as a threat.

Either way, this works as an efficient tool of social control. The government has little involvement, and therefore can claim it is not quelling political descent, which upholds the illusion of democracy. Meanwhile, the corporations say they have an obligation to their shareholders to produce profits, and individuals with "anti-social" tendencies are then an unnecessary risk for the company to take on. Because the individuals allow their private information to be leaked through the internet, in trade for quicker access to information and services, blame can effectively be placed on the individual when the time comes and his personal information is used against him.

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Lost Souls

In the next 15 years, privacy will be dead. We will have cameras on most street corners in medium and large cities. GPS systems will be mandatory in all cars, a federal RFID chip will be planted in every driver's license. In the name of the "war on terror", the Echelon phone monitoring system will be expanded...The feds will be listening in to all private conversations and scanning all emails for key words that may indicate "questionable" behavior or beliefs.. The government will use this data to compile a list of 'troublesome' Americans to be detained if and when a grassroots rebellion starts..

what happens next...
?

quote:

Originally posted by Capitalizt what happens next... ?

We begin to kill everyone....

quote:

Originally posted by atbell I'm going to paint a different picture. 2010 The US economy falls into a depression worse then what happened in the '20s. A confused population thrashes out at anything that can be called different. Xenophobia and regional distrust skyrocket because travel is heavily restricted due to the exorbanent price of fuel. 2015 The continueing economic down turn breads successionist movements as the South, the North East, Texas, and the West Coast all form multi state unions. The US federal funding for foreign fighting plummets and the returning security contractors seek work with the newly created unions. 2020 Strapped for resources the unions begin fighting and North America decends into a civil war. 2025 Nothing has been resolved but the fighting continues. Life in the cities becomes more dangerous then living any where else in the country. Not only are the cities the prime military targets but they are also crippled by speratic food deliveries and frequent power outages.

That's awesome, like a movie, I love reading stuff like this!

Personally, I think, since "new federalism" has given more power to the states, that we will eventually see a frightening situation, similar to our first civil war (Or the precursors to the civil war). Trust me, I like confederations more than federations, but many states are awfully stubborn, and if a new executive branch tries to redo federalism, we will have a few states seceding. We've seen some sticky situations with the Gay marriage issue in the 2000's. States are determined to create their own laws for protecting, or abolishing Gay Marriage, and they flip out when the federal government intervenes.

I'm not saying Gay Marriage will be the make or break issue. But State's rights will definitely be the main issue for our country's future within the next 50 years.

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"You won a new refrigerator, great! Where you gonna put it?" - Tony Danza

Last edited by Marc Summers on Oct-13-2007 at 18:36