no... you opened your eyes... or did you?

all arabs don't have the same mentality (what a shocker to you!)...

like the jews in israel, there's anti-zionist, marxist jews, orthodox jews, westernized jews, etc etc etc etc...

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Can't read that article, need to sign in or something...

Anyways, Ahlamalek, I think Mike might have though that all leaders of terror organizations have the same mentality. The Osama and Saddam issue should prove that not, whether they were connected or not is not as important as seeing that it is possible they were aprtly rivald, hence there are rivalries <<< That one came out a bit unclear.

But how about the organizations based within Palestine or around Israel, dedicated to the same cause, I've never seen them have violent struggles or witnessed any documentations of conflicts of ideals within them... I could, of course, be prevented of important news and media exposure, anyone care to enlighten me?

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quote:

But how about the organizations based within Palestine or around Israel, dedicated to the same cause, I've never seen them have violent struggles or witnessed any documentations of conflicts of ideals within them... I could, of course, be prevented of important news and media exposure, anyone care to enlighten me?

Palestinian society and its politics is riven by politics, factionalism and infighting with different groups backed by different powers in the Middle East all with different agendas.

For a background on how these organisations interact with each other I can recommend Robert Fisks Pity the Nation which of course focuses on the Lebanese civil war. It talks in detail about the PLO and its factions. Of course a lot has changed since then with the rise to prominence of the Islamic brotherhood "Hamas" and Islamic Jihad.

It also provides a detailed account of the creation of the Party of God "Hizbollah" whilst not a palestinian group per se, I am sure most westerners would probably lump them (quite wrongly) into the same category as Hamas. al queda etc.

There is no such thing as arab unity, there are only three things that can be counted on in this life death, taxes and arab infighting.

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Originally posted by rupert ... Robert Fisks ...

Robert Fisk is a fanatic and an extremist, nobody takes him seriously even in his native England; he's just like George Galloway. I've read many of Fisk's writings and can attest first-hand that this is a man filled with bile and hate for anything even remotely connected to the US or Israel. Maybe he should volunteer for one of those "human shields" to further his cause. I am sure nobody would be very sad to see him go.

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Rupert, what the hell are you talking about?

Hezbollah is just as much a terrorist organization as Al Fatah, Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, Al Qaeda, or Hamas. Do your research, man!

Mike, to answer your question, they are lots of tense issues between hardline terrorist groups. Oddly enough, most of them are religious.

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It has to start somewhere,
It has to start sometime,
What better place then here?
What better time than now?
--Rage Against the Machine

The three major religions in Israel are Christianity, Judism, Muslims. not all jews .. see I know some stuff.

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quote:

Originally posted by DrummeRaver86 Rupert, what the hell are you talking about? Hezbollah is just as much a terrorist organization as Al Fatah, Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, Al Qaeda, or Hamas. Do your research, man! Mike, to answer your question, they are lots of tense issues between hardline terrorist groups. Oddly enough, most of them are religious.

Perhaps he's referring to the structure of Hezbollah? I think it's more akin to the Sinn Fein and the IRA rather than anything else. Yes it is a terrorist group that carries out terrorist attacks, but at the same time it has a political wing with members in the Lebanese parliament. Additionally I'm not absolutely certain but I think that one of the ideological differences of Hezbollah from other terrorist groups is that it isn't pushing for the forceful implementation of an Islamic fundamentalist government ... rather it is willing to let the will of the majority decide. It's a rather confusing group since they've gone through a lot of changes over the years. It still calls for the destruction of Israel I believe ... that much has remained constant.

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Originally posted by occrider Perhaps he's referring to the structure of Hezbollah? I think it's more akin to the Sinn Fein and the IRA rather than anything else. Yes it is a terrorist group that carries out terrorist attacks, but at the same time it has a political wing with members in the Lebanese parliament. Additionally I'm not absolutely certain but I think that one of the ideological differences of Hezbollah from other terrorist groups is that it isn't pushing for the forceful implementation of an Islamic fundamentalist government ... rather it is willing to let the will of the majority decide. It's a rather confusing group since they've gone through a lot of changes over the years. It still calls for the destruction of Israel I believe ... that much has remained constant.

Good point occrider. Hezbollah does indeed hold seats in the Lebanese Parliament. Th eonly difference between them and the IRA/Sinn Fein is that even their political wing has a militant background, whereas Sinn Fein tries to stay away form violence.
Also, Hezbollah does have pretty strong religious roots. They aren't like Al Qaeda that quotes the Koran, but they are still quite religiouys. The last time I was in Lebanon, I visited the ruins of the ancient city of Baal'bak, and the actualy city of Baal'bak is a haven for Hezbollah suppourters. Anyway, I saw a lot of banners calling for Muslims to unite and such. Also, as I'm sure you know, they do recieve a LOT of funding from Iran. Probabaly not in a religious sense, but still worth note.

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It has to start somewhere,
It has to start sometime,
What better place then here?
What better time than now?
--Rage Against the Machine

quote:

Originally posted by DrummeRaver86 Good point occrider. Hezbollah does indeed hold seats in the Lebanese Parliament. Th eonly difference between them and the IRA/Sinn Fein is that even their political wing has a militant background, whereas Sinn Fein tries to stay away form violence. Also, Hezbollah does have pretty strong religious roots. They aren't like Al Qaeda that quotes the Koran, but they are still quite religiouys. The last time I was in Lebanon, I visited the ruins of the ancient city of Baal'bak, and the actualy city of Baal'bak is a haven for Hezbollah suppourters. Anyway, I saw a lot of banners calling for Muslims to unite and such. Also, as I'm sure you know, they do recieve a LOT of funding from Iran. Probabaly not in a religious sense, but still worth note.

Hezbollah describe themselves as the Party of God, therefore they're a religious armed force I suppose? Be under no illusion about the IRA, they are not a religious group. The Anglo-American media I'm sure will misinform the public, try to tell them that the IRA are a sectarian organisation, whose aim it is to kill Protestants in Ireland and ethnically cleanse Ireland of Protestants. They are infact an army of freedom fighters struggling to liberate Ireland from British influence and interference. The terrorists in the case of Ireland is the British establishment. They maintain control over part of Ireland through force of arms and the IRA are trying to end their control through armed resistance. The founders of Irish Republicanism were mostly Protestants who believed in uniting all Irishmen, "Catholic, Protestant and Dissenter". The same is relevent today, the creation of republic of equals, nothing to do with religious conflict, that's just a ploy to demonise the freedom fighters as religious sectarians.

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quote:

Originally posted by donegalredneck Hezbollah describe themselves as the Party of God, therefore they're a religious armed force I suppose? Be under no illusion about the IRA, they are not a religious group. The Anglo-American media I'm sure will misinform the public, try to tell them that the IRA are a sectarian organisation, whose aim it is to kill Protestants in Ireland and ethnically cleanse Ireland of Protestants. They are infact an army of freedom fighters struggling to liberate Ireland from British influence and interference. The terrorists in the case of Ireland is the British establishment. They maintain control over part of Ireland through force of arms and the IRA are trying to end their control through armed resistance. The founders of Irish Republicanism were mostly Protestants who believed in uniting all Irishmen, "Catholic, Protestant and Dissenter". The same is relevent today, the creation of republic of equals, nothing to do with religious conflict, that's just a ploy to demonise the freedom fighters as religious sectarians.

Don't worry, I know that the IRA is not religious, I have a few Irish friends.....but as to what you said, it's hard to say who the REAL terrorist is. It's the same deal witht he Israel and Palestine. To quote the cliché, "One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist."

PS: Hezbollah actually means "Party of God"

___________________

It has to start somewhere,
It has to start sometime,
What better place then here?
What better time than now?
--Rage Against the Machine

quote:

Hezbollah is just as much a terrorist organization as Al Fatah, Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, Al Qaeda, or Hamas. Do your research, man!

Why do you do your research. Dont you dare fucking insult me when I know quite a fair bit about what I am talking about.

Hizbollah are different from the other organisations because they are Shi'a not Sunni Muslims. Hizbollah was formed by South Lebanese Shias as a resistance movement to the Israeli invasion of Lebanon. And they beat them too.

quote:

Robert Fisk is a fanatic and an extremist, nobody takes him seriously even in his native England; he's just like George Galloway. I've read many of Fisk's writings and can attest first-hand that this is a man filled with bile and hate for anything even remotely connected to the US or Israel.

Truth hurts doesnt it. If the US media had even a twentieth of the integrity of Robert Fisk a man like John Pilger who has won many awards for his journalism the world would be a much better place. He was one of the first journalists into the Sabra and Chatila camp to report on its massacre, also the Qana massacre, also the Hama massacre. That you ridicule him speaks volumes about your values.

All I can say is, every day I wake up and I am grateful that I live in Australia and not some country controlled by Israel or the United States.