Over the past few days I've been having a look at some hard drive based MP3 players because I'm looking to buy. I thought I'd compile everything I found out and put it here for my fellow TAers.

They are expensive little gadgets but well worth it once you realise they allow you to carry your entire music collection with you in your breast pocket where ever you go. That's the good part. Unfortunately so far I've yet to find the perfect player; they all have at least one major flaw, which is a pity because I could imagine once someone gets it right they're likely to render all other portable audio devices obsolete.

You can expect to pay from $150USD to $500USD for one of these, and more if you want to buy it outside the US. In the UK you'll have to pay that many pounds!, and it's even worse if you're where I'm at in Australia. I'd suggest you purchase it over the internet from a US retailer, some of which I've listed below. This method does have its pitfalls however in that if your player is DOA you'll have to fork out international shipping to and fro costs and have to wait a lot longer for your replacement unit than Jimbo in America who lives up the street from the warehouse. For me it would take a lot of shipping before it was more expensive than buying from an Australian retailer as the price hike is almost double.

okay, getting right to it...

[Apple iPods]
Picture and spcs: http://www.apple.com/ipod/specs.html
Reviews: http://reviews.cnet.com/Apple_iPod_...l?tag=pdtl-list
The good:
- The smallest and lightest mp3 players in the world, with a slick minimilistic design (some would say these are also the best looking mp3 players but I prefer the Zen myself).
- The best control interface, which includes one of the largest LCD screens, touch sensitive buttons and cool circular navigation ring that allows you to accelerate through your folder lists.
- Largest memory buffer of all the players (32MB) which equates to the harddrive spinning less, which is supposed to save power, although you wouldn't know it.
The bad:
- The most expensive by quite a long way.
- Battery duration before recharge needs to improve for that price (6-8hrs).
- Annoying copyright protection that blocks any attempt to transfer your music from one computer to another (player recognises only one computer for music file transfer). There are ways around this, although I'm not sure how easy they are, and you shouldn't have to jump through copyright hoops anyway (in Apple's defense perhaps this is an anti-lawsuit stratagy what with all the RIAA crap goin' on in America at the moment; then again it's more likely to be a lame attempt to get more people using their music download site).
- You cannot swap out the battery as it is built in; Apple have offered $50 off next iPod (lasts about 2 years but it's worth noting that the earlier iPod batteries frequently failed after only a year of use). There are ways around this also, with several vendors offering to replace batteries, for a price of course (it is easier for people who live in the US to do this; and you will void your warranty unless it's being replaced as part of your warranty agreement).
- No line in/out (line out from the docking cradle? Not sure; post if you know).
- No FM tuner.
Notes:
- You can use the player as a portable harddrive to transfer non-music files, and these will not be blocked as the music files are.
- The newest iPods come in 10GB, 15GB and 30GB models.
- Remote, docking cradle and carry bag only come with the 15GB and 30GB models, not the 10GB (Umm...I don't get it? The thing is useless without the cradle at least?)
- The software bundled with the unit is suspect for Windows users but excellent for Apple users.
- Be aware that there are the old iPods, and the new iPods, which were released in May of 2003.

[Creative Nomad Jukebox 3]
Picture and specs: http://www.nomadworld.com/products/jukebox3/specs.asp
Cnet review: http://reviews.cnet.com/Creative_No...l?tag=pdtl-list
User reviews and prices: http://hardwarecentral.dealtime.com...-0/NS-1/GS.html
The good:
- Sound quality is superior to all other non-creative players. EAX sound effects available.
- Line in and out enabled, so you can record from a mic or stereo directly to mp3 or wav using the player, or pipe your mp3s to a stereo thru line out.
- Player can run up to 22hrs before recharge if you buy the extra battery (batteries are made by creative only and are expensive at $30-$50US; and to be honest the thing isn't the most portable of all the players, it's more a stay at home player in which case you won't need the added battery).
- 16MB memory buffer.
The bad:
- Big and heavy; just barely fiting in your pocket (an improvement on the Nomad Jukebox 2 however).
- The poorest file transfer software setup that must be loaded on your computer to transfer files to your player (unless you want to pay the $25 for the third party Notmad software which is excellent). What this means is if you want to take it to your friends house and give him some files you need to take along a disk with the software on it and load it on his computer aswell *groan*.
- No FM tuner.
Notes:
- The Nomad Jukebox 3 comes in 20GB and 40GB models
- Notmad software is available for $25US. It's far superior to the bundled software (it allows drag and drop from windows explorer among other things).

[Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen]
Picture and specs: http://www.nomadworld.com/products/jukebox_zen/
Cnet review: http://reviews.cnet.com/Creative_Ju...l?tag=pdtl-list
User reviews and prices: http://hardwarecentral.dealtime.com...-0/NS-1/GS.html
The good:
- It's a bit of a looker
- Sound quality is superior to all other non-creative players. EAX sound effects available.
- Size is nice for the price.
- 16MB memory buffer
The bad:
- Fixed battery setup which cannot be removed without voiding the warrenty (lasts about 2yrs).
- The poorest file transfer software setup as per the Nomad Jukebox 3. Notmad available for $25US.
- No line in/out.
Notes:
- The Zen comes in 20GB and 60GB models
- Wired remote available for about $60US that has an FM radio and voice recording capabilities. However, the remote is no longer displayed on the creative website so I'm assuming it is no longer made. Not a fan of wored remotes anyway: they defeat the purpose of having a small compact player in the first place.


[Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen NX]
Picture and specs: http://www.nomadworld.com/products/jukebox_zen_nx/
Cnet first take review: http://reviews.cnet.com/Creative_No...l?tag=pdtl-list
Prices: http://hardwarecentral.dealtime.com...-0/NS-1/GS.html
The good:
- Removable battery! (No word yet whether the battery is made by Creative only or is a common off the shelf one; I'd assume it's proprietary Creative as it is for the Nomad Jukebox 3).
- Sound quality is superior to all other non-creative players. EAX sound effects available.
- Even smaller than the Zen bringing it closer to the iPod without hiking the price (Zen and Zen NX are about the same price, surprise surprise).
The bad:
- Memory buffer reduced from 16MB (Zen and JB 3) to 8MB?!
- The poorest file transfer software setup as per the Nomad Jukebox 3. Notmad available for $25US.
- Wired remote for Zen does not work with this one. Either they've abandoned wired remotes all together or one will be coming soon. Atm, no FM tuner.
- No line in/out.
Notes:
- Only just released. Not much information in the form of user reviews on this yet.
- The Zen NX comes in 20GB and 30GB models.

*UPDATE

Cnet review for the Nomad Jukebox Zen NX has just been posted. You can find it here.

A summary:
- battery is removable but proprietary - you must buy from creative. Jukebox3 battery was expensive; not sure what the price for an extra battery for the NX is though.
- 14 hr advertised battery duration is rubbish - more like 8 - 10hrs.
- 8mb RAM is sdram.
- Most agree the sound quality is superb, it's excellent value for money, but software is crap.
- Wired remote with radio and voice record on the way (not confirmed).

[Archos Jukebox Recorder 20]



Pictures, prices and user reviews: http://hardwarecentral.dealtime.com...-0/NS-1/GS.html
Cnet review: http://reviews.cnet.com/Archos_Juke...l?tag=pdtl-list
The good:
- File transfer is simple: just plug in your USB cable and windows recognises the player as a harddrive; no need for proprietary software; no copyright hurdles.
- Open source Rockbox firmware in constant development by Archos users doing things like adding games (Doom has been ported to it!), improving battery efficiency, adding text file reading ability etc. A lot of activity going on here (Site: http://rockbox.haxx.se/).
- Removable batteries (4xNiHMAA) that you can buy anywhere, and are constantly being improved by the battery makers.
- Line in/out (eg. plug in a microphone or your stereo speakers, or record from your stereo)
The bad:
- Size and weight not ideal but still fits in the palm.
- 2MB memory buffer very poor compared to other players.
- No FM tuner.
- Plays MP3 and MP3 VBR only.
Notes:
- 20GB model available.
- I've seen a few sites that show you how to upgrade your harddrive if you're willing to void your warranty (the rockbox community hard at it here).

[Archos Jukebox FM Recorder 20]
Pictures, prices and user reviews: http://hardwarecentral.dealtime.com...-0/NS-1/GS.html
The good:
- Built in FM tuner which you can record from also.
- 60grams lighter than the Archos Jukebox Recorder (due to the battery setup), and a little smaller.
- Voice record through built in microphone
- Line in available for recording from any source. (not sure about line out)
The bad:
- Non-removable battery.
- 2MB memory buffer very poor compared to other players.
- Size and weight not ideal but still fits in the palm.
- Plays MP3 and MP3 VBR only.
Notes:
- 20GB available.

[iRiver iHP-100]
Picture and specs: http://iriver.com/company/news_view.asp?idx=342
The good:
- Same size and weight as the iPod.
- Longest advertised battery life before recharge at 16hrs, double the iPods.
- Wired remote/FM tuner.
- Voice record
- Line in/out.
- iD3 tag recognition
The bad:
- Expensive for a 10GB player.
- Lowest headphone power output of all the players.
Notes:
- Just released; not much info on this one yet.
- 10GB only so far.

UPDATE

The reviews for the iRiver iHP players are now in.

First of all, there is now a 20 Gig version, the iRiver iHP 120, at $400. The iHP 100 is now $350.

The low down:
1. Windows (Windows 98 SE, Windows ME, Windows 2000, Windows XP) recognises the player as a harddrive automatically; drag and drop files using windows. In other words it doubles as a portable harddrive - brilliant.
2. Seperate FM radio remote comes with player as standard; no need to buy it as an addon.
3. Looks like you can expect 14hr battery life, or even some more. They're 16 hrs advertised battery life looks genuine. Battery is non-removable rechargable lithium-ion.
4. Sound quality is as good, if not better, than the iPod, but creative players still win here.
5. in/out line so you can connect to your stereo no dramas.
6. Microphone built in - all good.
7. As mentioned before, size and weight a fraction more than best (2nd to the iPod).
8. 1 year warranty

[eDigital Odyssey 1000]
Picture and specs: http://www.edigital-store.com/odyssey1000.html
online manual: http://edig.com/product-support/Ody...0UsersGuide.pdf
Cnet review: http://reviews.cnet.com/eDigital_Od...l?tag=pdtl-list
The good:
- Voice activated navigation based on American accent - great when driving the car.
- Built in mic and FM tuner.
The bad:
- Unweildy file preparation that requires you to place all your music into 2 layers of folders eg. Artist/album/songname.mp3
- As small as the Zen NX in height and width but very thick.
- Non-removable battery (battery good for a 1000 charges (2yrs) but eDigital pledge to replace it for $35 when it runs out).
- only a 180 day limited warranty (I think iPods at least offer a year).
- No line in/out.
Notes
- 20GB available.


QUICK COMPARISONS
PRICE (USD)
$230 - Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen NX 20GB
$240 - Archos Jukebox Recorder 20GB
$250 - Archos Jukebox FM Recorder 20GB
$260 - Creative Nomad Jukebox 3 20GB
$265 - Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen NX 30GB
$270 - Apple iPod 10GB
$275 - Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen 20GB
$350 - Odyssey 1000 20GB
$380 - Creative Nomad Jukebox 3 40GB
$380 - Apple iPod 15GB
$415 - iRiver iHP-100 10GB
$470 - Apple iPod 30GB
Notes:
These are the lowest US retail prices I could find; expect to pay more in other countries, and being realistic you can probably add up to +$50 to these prices if you're in the US. The players I'm covering here are the newer ones; you can still pick up earlier models even cheaper than these if you're happy with lower capacity and lower battery efficiency.

SOUND QUALITY
98dB signal to noise ratio - 50mW(L)+50mW(R)(total 100mW headphone output power): 32 ohm at max vol. - Creative Nomad Jukeboxes
90dB signal to noise ratio - 50mW(L)+50mW(R)(total 100mW headphone output power): unknown - Archos Jukeboxes
90dB signal to noise ratio - 50mW minimum: unknown - Odyssey 1000 20GB
unknown - 30mW(L)+30mW(R)(total 60mW headphone output power): unknown - iPods
90dB signal to noise ratio - 20mW(L)+20mW(R)(total 40mW headphone output power): 16 ohm at max vol. - iRiver iHP-100 10GB
Notes:
I'm not an expert on this stuff, I just copied it down. Exactly how much better sound quality the Creative players have I'm not sure. It is certain however that they have the best sound quality, and that's not surprising seeing as sound is Creative's speciality (ever heard of Soundblasters soundcards). If anyone knows about this stuff post it.

SIZE (millimetres)
105 x 60 x 19 - iRiver iHP-100 10GB
105 x 61 x 19 - Apple iPods
112 x 77 x 22 - Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen NX
117 x 76 x 25 - Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen
112 x 74 x 28 - eDigital Odyssey 1000 20GB
113 x 79 x 30 - Archos Jukebox FM Recorder 20GB
115 x 83 x 34 - Archos Jukebox Recorder 20GB
130 x 123 x 35 - Creative Nomad Jukebox 3



From left to right: Nomad Jukebox 3, Archos Recorder 20, Archos FM recorder 20 (Archos media player case shown), Odyssey 1000, Creative Zen, Creative Zen NX, iPod, iRiver iHP-100, Standard CD case.

WEIGHT (grams)
158 - Apple iPod 15GB
160 - iRiver iHP-100 10GB
176 - Apple iPod 30GB
225 - Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen NX 30GB
233 - eDigital Odyssey 1000 20GB
270 - Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen 20GB
290 - Archos Jukebox FM Recorder 20GB
350 - Archos Jukebox Recorder 20GB
400 - Creative Nomad Jukebox 3 20GB

BATTERY LIFE BEFORE RECHARGE (hours)
22 with extra battery (11 without) - Creative Nomad Jukebox 3
16 - iRiver iHP-100 10GB
14 - Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen NX
14 - Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen
12 - eDigital Odyssey 1000 20GB
12 - Archos Jukebox FM Recorder 20GB
10 - Archos Jukebox Recorder 20GB
8 - Apple iPods <-- How to ruin a perfectly good player. What were they thinking when they specified a 630mAh Lithium-ion battery when most other players use an, on average, 1500mAh Li-ion?! The price they pay for the small size and low weight I guess.
Notes:
Be aware that sometimes the advertised battery life is fudged by running tests in optimal conditions. Worst case is take of 1-2 hrs for those people who know they'll abuse the shit out of the thing.

MEMORY BUFFER (MB)
32 - Apple iPods
16 - Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen
16 - Creative Nomad Jukebox 3
8 - Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen NX
8 - eDigital Odyssey 1000 20GB (says 8 minutes skip protection which is about 8MB buffer)
2 - Archos Jukebox FM Recorder 20GB
2 - Archos Jukebox Recorder 20GB
unknown - iRiver iHP-100 10GB

SCREEN SIZE (pixels)
160 x 128 - iPods
160 x 128 - Odyssey 1000 20GB
132 x 64 - Creative Nomad Jukeboxes
112 x 64 - Archos Jukeboxes
unknown but looks bigger than iPods in pics - iRiver iHP-100 10GB

REMOVABLE BATTERY
yes - Archos Jukebox Recorder 20GB
yes - Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen NX 30GB
yes - Creative Nomad Jukebox 3 20GB
no - eDigital Odyssey 1000 20GB
no - Apple iPod 15GB
no - iRiver iHP-100 10GB
no - Apple iPod 30GB
no - Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen 20GB
no - Archos Jukebox FM Recorder 20GB

LINE IN/OUT
yes - Archos Jukebox Recorder 20GB
yes - Creative Nomad Jukebox 3 20GB
yes - Archos Jukebox FM Recorder 20GB
yes - iRiver iHP-100 10GB
no - Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen NX 30GB
no - eDigital Odyssey 1000 20GB
no - Apple iPod 15GB
no - Apple iPod 30GB
no - Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen 20GB

FM RADIO
yes(internal) - eDigital Odyssey 1000 20GB
yes(internal) - Archos Jukebox FM Recorder 20GB
yes(wired remote) - iRiver iHP-100 10GB
yes(wired remote) - Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen 20GB (wired remote discontinued?)
no - Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen NX 30GB
no - Archos Jukebox Recorder 20GB
no - Creative Nomad Jukebox 3 20GB
no - Apple iPod 15GB
no - Apple iPod 30GB

Comparison Chart Links
mp3 player comparison chart 1: http://www.hotmp3gear.com/ComputerI...Comparison1.htm
mp3 player comparison chart 2: http://www.dapreview.com/ (and hit "comparison")
mp3 player comparison chart 3: http://reviews.cnet.com/Music/4502-6490_7-0.html

Miscellaneous Notes:
- File transfer setups come in three flavours: USB 1.1, and USB 2.0 and FireWire. Most computers today have USB 1.1 ports. USB 1.1 will transfer at about 0.5MB per second. USB 2.0 and FireWire transfer to MP3 players at about the 10MB per second. FireWire is superior to USB and allows recharging of connected devices through the FireWire port. USB needs to be monitored by the CPU and has been known to corrupt tranferred files because of this. Unless you've recently bought a new PC it's likely you will not have support for USB 2.0 or FireWire (except Apple Macs which all have FireWire).You can buy FireWire and USB2.0 addon cards for around $50. USB 2.0 can connect to USB 1.1 ports but will transfer at the slower speed.
- Most of the big internet retail stores in the US don't ship electonic equipment over seas. The ones I have found that do are:
http://focuscamera.com/sc/main_item.asp?id=964587157&rf=bz&dfdate=06_08_2003 (requires faxed passport copy)
http://www.pcuniverse.com/product.asp?pid=331725&m_id=10 (wire transfers only for international shipping)
http://www.zones.com/cgi-bin/zones/site/product/index.html?id=000626697&zone=zbs (International orders must be placed by phone.)
http://www.environmentalsuperstore.net/pd_archos_jukebox_fm.cfm (two week delay for international orders for credit card check. +$35US shipping)
http://www.hotmp3gear.com/place.htm ($40 shipping)(archos only)
However, I've sent emails to some of those non-international shipping stores stating that I'm ready to buy and they've replied they do ship internationally after all, and I can use my credit card aswell no problem. Basically, if you see a price you like send them an e-mail.
- If they don't accept credit cards money orders are a lot cheaper than wire transfers, at least where I live anyway.
- Playing MP3s at lower bit rates saves battery power. It's common for users to reduce their music collection from 192kbps to 128kbps. This has the added benefit of allowing more songs to be stored.

After all that I'm not sure I'm ready to buy one. Basically, if there was a player with the physical characteristics of the iPod, the file transfer and battery setup of the Archos Recorder 20, and the sound quality and battery durability of the Creative Nomads Zen I would buy it no matter the price . Unfortunately my perfect player doesn't exist yet, and for the price of these things I want a player that at least will last; most of them have battery set-ups that leave a lot to be desired.

If you own one of these post here your experience with them good or bad; and feel free to correct any mistakes I've made. Hopefully we can get a nice thread going here that will point people in the right direction.

Last edited by jon on Nov-14-2003 at 14:45

Just my 2 cents...

I currently have a second-generation iPod, and I love it. I don't have the dock or anything, as my iPod is not compatible with that. One of my friends has the 3rd generation iPod (the new one) and seems to love it. Slimmer and sexier. I have had no problems with my iPod, sound quality seems to be top notch. Good use for running as the skip protection is very good. My girlfriend has Archos Jukebox recorder and she is about to throw it out. Not to be mean, but that thing got incredibly messed up in about 3 months of her getting it. If you are a PC user, don't be afraid to get an iPod just because it uses Musicmatch. Apple plans to release a PC version of iTunes later this year (possibly december) which will have the iTunes music store + will be compatible with all iPods. For a mac user (like me) definately go with the iPod. It may be expensive, but it's a great buy.

___________________
.nookajones

The iPods are most definately quality. If you're worried about the price you can always go for the cheaper 10GB model, which is still oodles of space for most people, especially considering in order to save battery power you'll be reducing your MP3 collection down to 128kbps anyway.

The fixed battery you can argue will last for more than two years if it's rated for 1000 charges (being conservative 2 years if you charge it every day which you won't) and in 3 to 5 years a lot can change in the electronics market.

My main worry with the iPod is the battery duration between charges. 6-8 hrs is not enough for me. What has been your experience with battery life?

As for the archos: the rumour is that these players are prone to problems, but once you get one that works they last forever. I suggest to anyone who wants to buy one of these that you test it extensively straight away, and if you're getting it delivered from overseas have them test it for you before they send it. If your girlfriend is having problems I really recommend she go to the rockbox forum and ask for help - they know what they're doing.

I think different players will suit different people. You've really got to ask yourself what you will be using it for. The iPods are for perhaps the sports lover and those who won't be using it for frequent music tranferring; just personal use (most people I think). The Creative Nomads are for the audiophiles and music professionals and those people who travel alot and need better battery performance. The Archos users are the tech savvy types who do a lot of file transferring and love to mess about with their gadgets and are not overly worried about bulkiness because they won't be throwing it about that much.

Initially I was looking at the Archos Recorder, but because I'm not really tech savvy now I'm leaning towards the 10GB iPod or the Creative Jukebox Zen with Notmad. Small size, just play me my music, and occasional portable harddrive - that's all I need.

Last edited by b1_ on Aug-13-2003 at 09:15

quote:

Originally posted by b1_ - Open source Rockbox firmware in constant development by Archos users doing things like adding games (Doom has been ported to it!), improving battery efficiency, adding text file reading ability etc. A lot of activity going on here (Site: http://rockbox.haxx.se/).

w00t!

Never knew about Rockbox but it changed the way I look at my Archos forever! It now has the two features I desired the most: Resume and fast forward.

Thanks a lot for the tip and the great review & effort!

___________________

Ive had a Nomad Jukebox 3 20gig for over a year...no complaints. Especially for my use...The bulkiness does not bother me since it just sits next to me all the time in my flight case. (i.e. i don't take it jogging...lol)

Good INFO btw!!

___________________

"I'd like to buy a techno song."

hey b1_, I have an archos jukebox recorder 20 for about a year now and I can tell you the goods and bads about it. When I first got it, the default firmware sucks. This is when I found rockbox. Rockbox is amazing. The only beef I had with it was the 400 file limit in a directory(which they fixed due to whiners). I upgraded to a USB 2.0 and transfer speed are so fast now. Backlight options can be modified. It even has a 7 second anti-skip. About the game Doom, it never really existed. I downloaded the abjerez file and it said it was an april fools joke! The games that are in rockbox are good if you're bored. Battery capacity can reach up to 2400 mah(if you got the money and if that exist right now). Currently, I'm running my Archos with 1500 mah batteries and it doesn't seem enough. I like the playlist setting. Rockbox can even alter pitch so you can make a song longer or shorter. I'm not sure you mentioned this, but Archos recorder 20 has a built in mic so you can record conversations etc. One time, I was bored and decided to record a whole day at school. The file came up to 300+ MB and it was a couple of hours long. The only problem with the built in mic was that you could hear the disk spinning to buffer the file. I sugest you get an external mic and record lectures and convos. Whatever. I was really impressed by this. Rockbox can also read .txt files so when I purchase it, I typed down my schedule on my computer and read it on my rockbox when i forgot it. It's a text viewer, I don't think it can write text. I also use the sleep timer frequently when I listen to vocal trance late at night. The main reason I bought Archos 20 is because it was alot cheaper than apple's ipod and the ipod has restrictions on recording. When my power supply borke on my computer, I used my archos for transfering data and songs from my friend's DSL connection. It is very handy. All I needed was my Archos and my USB wire. No other software is needed becasue the Archos is also a mass storage device. Archos is a little big and heavy but it is definately the BEST thing I ever bought with my hard earned cash. I listen to it all the time. My livesets transfers so fast with usb 2.0 and with rockbox, it is definately worth your money. I highly recommend the Archos Jukebox Recorder 20. I have it, I love it. Worth every penny. B1_, aside from the cons, and the girlfriend thing, it's good. If you have any questions, let me know okay?

[edit] I need to add something because this is a Trance addict forum. If you have a liveset and you want to fast forward to a certain spot, Rockbox has a really nifty trick that I use all the time. Lets say, I'm listening to PVD live@creamAtAmnesia and I want to fast forward to the 100 minute mark. Okay, I hold the fast forward button and Rockbox starts to fastforward. It starts to seek up a minute every 5 seconds(?). Then after seeking 3 or so minutes, it starts seeking faster, and faster. Eventually, it will seek 10 minutes every second or so. This is a very nifty feature if you have a bunch of livesets and you want to listen to a specific spot.

Last edited by darklink on Aug-21-2003 at 18:07

quote:

Originally posted by Sir. Lunchalot w00t! Never knew about Rockbox but it changed the way I look at my Archos forever! It now has the two features I desired the most: Resume and fast forward. Thanks a lot for the tip and the great review & effort!

No problem. If there's one type of music fan who would benefit from an mp3 player it would have to be trance addicts - nothing like listening to trance in some idealic natural surround like over looking an ocean or something.

Thx for the info darklnk - exactly what I was after: first hand player experience worts and all. Cheers.

no problem Just glad I could help.

quote:

Originally posted by b1_ - Annoying copyright protection that blocks any attempt to transfer your music from one computer to another (player recognises only one computer for music file transfer). There are ways around this, although I'm not sure how easy they are, and you shouldn't have to jump through copyright hoops anyway (in Apple's defense perhaps this is an anti-lawsuit stratagy what with all the RIAA crap goin' on in America at the moment; then again it's more likely to be a lame attempt to get more people using their music download site). - No line in/out (line out from the docking cradle? Not sure; post if you know).

First of all I have a 30GB iPod and a Mac computer and the dock does indeed have a line out.

As for the copyright protection I know I have had problems with transferring files from my iPod to my buddy BryZe's PC. I'm also not sure if it may be because my iPod is formatted for Mac? He was mentioning something to me just yesterday that he was able to take his 15GB iPod and transfer files off of it to a coworker's PC. He was mentioning something about the mp3s being hidden files or something but it seemed to work for him. Again it may have worked becuase his iPod is formatted for a PC I don't know. If you have questions feel free to PM him and if you can't get a hold of him just PM me and I'll bug him about it. He can give you a complete explanation on how to do the file transfers.

I hope this answers these two questions.

In reguards to the music download site, I think it's a great idea. I'd have no problem purchasing music that way if it were offered in Canada and they had the songs I want. I'm hoping that music service improves in the future.

Also about the dock, the only advantage I see with it is the line out. You can charge the iPod without the dock because you just plug the firewire directly into the iPod.

About the software for the PC, it's a valid point that it doesn't interface as well as with the Macs but Apple designed both the iPod and iTunes so they should work perfectly together right. I am quite sure that when iTunes gets released for the PC this problem will be solved as well. BryZe posted a link in another thread somewhere about the PC version of iTunes but I can't remember where it is. =p

Scrolling through songs is no problem either. It can be done, it accelerates and it is quite simple to do. That's all I'm going to say about that.

I have had no problems with the battery life yet but the only time I can see it being a problem is on long car or plane trips. What is needed for the car is an adaptor to plug into the ciarette lighter but I haven't seen any yet and am anxiously awaiting it's release. For plane rides I honestly can't think of a solution.

One other thing, the 30GB model is slightly larger than the 10 and 15 GB models. The height and width are the same but it is slightly deeper.

Sorry I've tried to keep this post as organized as possible but there are things I need to keep adding. I've already edited this post about five ro six times. =)

Hope this helps,

Cheers.

Last edited by physe on Aug-23-2003 at 00:59

All I can add to this is that I bought the Creative Zen 10gig model last October, and I absolutely love it!

Normally when I've spent a good deal of money on something I have second thoughts, or spend the next few weeks thinking "hmm I shouldn't have done that" -- but this is like the only expensive thing I've ever bought where I don't think like that!!

I've never had any problems with it, the software has crashed twice (not too bad when you consider that I've used it probably 2-3 hours a day, every day for the last 10 months). The battery life is good, I get about 8-9 hours out of it before it needs a charge, but I just plug it in to the wall and keep listening

I haven't used any of the other MP3 players so I can't really compare them, but yeah I've had basically no problems with the Zen and would totally recommend it

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quote:

Originally posted by physe As for the copyright protection I know I have had problems with transferring files from my iPod to my buddy BryZe's PC. I'm also not sure if it may be because my iPod is formatted for Mac? He was mentioning something to me just yesterday that he was able to take his 15GB iPod and transfer files off of it to a coworker's PC. He was mentioning something about the mp3s being hidden files or something but it seemed to work for him. Again it may have worked becuase his iPod is formatted for a PC I don't know. If you have questions feel free to PM him and if you can't get a hold of him just PM me and I'll bug him about it. He can give you a complete explanation on how to do the file transfers.

Please let BryZe know about this thread. I would be interested to know exactly how hard it is to tranfer music and other files using the iPod. My understanding is that everything except music is easy to transfer; in fact I think it's a plug and transfer setup for non-music files as windows picks up the iPod as an external drive. And as you said all music files are hidden but you can un-hide them somehow (when you do this however the iPod resets the one computer to the new computer and so you must reconfigure it when you return to your original comp.

Webmeister, you're in Australia like myself so I would like to know where you purchased your Zen from and for how much? And does the Zen fit comfortably in your pocket or is it just a bit too bulky? Have you ever used it while cycling by chance, as that is what I need it for?

quote:

Originally posted by b1_ Please let BryZe know about this thread. I would be interested to know exactly how hard it is to tranfer music and other files using the iPod. My understanding is that everything except music is easy to transfer; in fact I think it's a plug and transfer setup for non-music files as windows picks up the iPod as an external drive. And as you said all music files are hidden but you can un-hide them somehow (when you do this however the iPod resets the one computer to the new computer and so you must reconfigure it when you return to your original comp. Webmeister, you're in Australia like myself so I would like to know where you purchased your Zen from and for how much? And does the Zen fit comfortably in your pocket or is it just a bit too bulky? Have you ever used it while cycling by chance, as that is what I need it for?

I've already let him know. =)