because there are very few talented producers in trance music these days. all the talent seems to be in other genres...and that's where you see more experientation

Because once you stop following the formula of one genre and change it, it becomes another genre.

quote:

Originally posted by david.michael Because once you stop following the formula of one genre and change it, it becomes another genre.

Hence why it's no longer TRANCE! Duuuh.

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quote:

Originally posted by david.michael Because once you stop following the formula of one genre and change it, it becomes another genre.

Taking out a breakdown wouldn't change trance into another genre.

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Originally posted by kramer333 but why?

That's something that's always bothered me too. It seems many producers seem to be stuck doing things a certain way, as if it's the only way to do things. There are other ways to break up a track without using a typical breakdown (although hearing a good breakdown now and again is nice).

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quote:

Originally posted by Fundamental Taking out a breakdown wouldn't change trance into another genre.

Nope. It'd just put a lot of producers out of business. Which wouldn't be a bad thing necassarily.

quote:

Originally posted by Fundamental Taking out a breakdown wouldn't change trance into another genre.

I didn't say that.

I was more replying to this part of the thread:

quote:

Why dont people experiment more? generally i miss alot of more experimentation in trance music! trance is the most melodic genre of the elektronic music out there so why doesn't it show a better example of it self! we see so many producers following a structure and a musical model that is overused and old, but it works on the dancefloor - "dance" - "Hands up in the air" - "dance again" - and so on. This is underground music, producers dont have to follow musical rules because of lack of money making, or satisfaction for their fans like in pop music! why is people so afraid of experimenting in trance music!

It's not that people aren't experimenting, it's that when they experiment enough, it either gets classified as another genre or they classify it in a new one.

I will agree to both sides. Yes there are a lot of breakdowns and some breakdowns are too forumalic, but if there were no breakdowns, trance wouldn't be what it is today. I mean I feel trance has evolved and doesn't always use the same overly-theatrical synth/saw wave sound that it did back in 99 and 2000. Sure there are still tracks and artists that use it, but if you look at producers like Envio, Mark Otten, Micro De Govia, Solar Stone, Thomas Datt, Probspot, Galen Behr/Passiva, Kalafut & Fygle, Alucard etc they have kept a lot of the same formula that (whether you like it or not) has made trance what it is and has made it popular. I mean they have breakdowns, but they use pianos and guitars and these euphoric synth sounds that aren't the same as they were. Their music sounds more sophisticated, futuristic, progressive and natural I guess. It doesn't sound as overtly electronic.

I personally am picky now and look for stuff that sounds more like the producers mentioned. I mean you don't need a huge over the top breakdown, but some break in the energy, or some transition point in the track I feel is neccessary to make it PROGRESSIVE MELODIC TRANCE and not psy trance or tech trance or hard trance, which is more relentless and full on. It needs something to deferntiate itself from other sub-genres. Like Radagast and david.michael notes, if you change something completely it's not what it is anymore, it's not trance anymore. If your looking for something completely different than the more melodic variety of trance with euphoric breakdowns and simple yet beautiful melodies then there's other sub-genres of trance as noted, heck there's other genres of EDM you might like. But lets just improve the formula to it, not completely do away with it. I feel it has been improved, slowly and still has some growth to do no doubt. You guys are talking about experimenting..what new ideas would you bring to this music? What else should there be instead of a breakdown (or some type of way to transition from one point to another)?

Um... You do realize that trance was called trance long before the breakdown became its dominate feature, don't you? By your definition, everything you call trance isn't trance because the name was already taken by a form of EDM that didn't rely on the breakdown/build template.

That all said, I've noticed a lot of stuff that is produced similar to the old form gets called prog psy these days, or something like that. Heh...

EDIT TO ADD:

quote:

what new ideas would you bring to this music? What else should there be instead of a breakdown (or some type of way to transition from one point to another)?

How about just put the breakdown at the beginning of the track, make it an intro, then go from there without the need to halt the momentum of a song completely and utterly to introduce the main melody.

Or how about doing it subtely during the course of the track, letting it build from the beginning rhythms until it emerges, perhaps a four-eight beat pause, then bring it all right back without any dawdling.

The way it's been done for the last five years, I sometimes get the impression the producers figure their audience is too thick to appreciate subtlety in music that, as it's name seems to hint at, is meant to be seductive rather than 'in yo' face'. If I wanted to hear a nice melody wihthout a beat, I'll listen to ambient.

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Last edited by Sykonee on Jan-03-2006 at 23:44

quote:

Originally posted by Sykonee Um... You do realize that trance was called trance long before the breakdown became its dominate feature, don't you? By your definition, everything you call trance isn't trance because the name was already taken by a form of EDM that didn't rely on the breakdown/build template. .

Ok this is a response to this quote, and the others, but i didn't copy the whole thing. I realize that it was called trance before the big breakdowns were introduced. I started to be into this music around 13 and 14 years old. All I knew at the time was the techno I heard I didn't like so I enjoyed stuff like BT, PvD and Paul Oakenfold. I wasn't into it in the real early years, and i've always been into the real progressive, melodic stuff with breakdowns and build ups. Now this is just how it evolved, but you do realize that when these breakdowns were introduced, it was when trance was at it's peak, 98 and 99, and when I really got into it. I was too young to go to clubs then, but I can tell you that even then, not every track had huge breakdowns per say. I mean not every track Oakie spun had this, but the songs that did were HUGE. I mean do u really think trance should have sounded the exactly same that it did back before 98 and 99? From what I heard that stuff was more similar to techno and psy, but trance evolved into a seperate genre with the most popular being the uplifting, melodic and progressive trance, which I enjoy and I am sure many people on Tranceaddict do as well.

I mean i've heard some of that stuff, it's fine, but trance evolved into what it has evolved into now, and it has continued to evolve with various other sub-genres like tech-trance. My point is that breakdowns have evolved just as the music has. Putting them at the beginning is already done with tracks with larger intros, but that would be a drag to go through (and are more suited as opening tracks) and would have to be edited to beatmix, unless you mix in with intros. I mean I agree there needs to be some more innovations, and new ideas, but why do away completely with a formula (breakdown/build) that has been so popular over these past 8 years?

Last edited by Spirit5 on Jan-04-2006 at 02:11

quote:

Originally posted by Sykonee EDIT TO ADD: How about just put the breakdown at the beginning of the track, make it an intro, then go from there without the need to halt the momentum of a song completely and utterly to introduce the main melody. Or how about doing it subtely during the course of the track, letting it build from the beginning rhythms until it emerges, perhaps a four-eight beat pause, then bring it all right back without any dawdling. The way it's been done for the last five years, I sometimes get the impression the producers figure their audience is too thick to appreciate subtlety in music that, as it's name seems to hint at, is meant to be seductive rather than 'in yo' face'. If I wanted to hear a nice melody wihthout a beat, I'll listen to ambient.

The first part I already answered so I'll get to the other two. I believe i've heard stuff just like what your talking about, but i've heard that in more tech trance and psy trance. I mean if your talking about just not having a really really long breakdown, fine, I kind of agree. But at the same time, if it's so like psy or so like tech, it's not what it is, epic or progressive. There are plenty of proressive trance with not as big of breakdowns as epic trance. I'm actually into progressive and have been into it like I said for a long time, just as much as epic trance. What your kind of describing is stuff like "Foreplay" by Probspot and I love it. That I do agree with, and thats what i'm saying about how the breakdown has evolved, but when I think of breakdown, I think of transition point in track, where the melody comes in. Which has typically made trance what it is. Having a more significant shift than in techno, which builds and builds it seems.

In response to your other comment, I kind of agree too, but I look at trance as being more than just beats. I mean my definition of trance is slightly different, thus it's made it kind of difficult for me to post what I truly feel on TA without some backlash or people not really understanding where I'm coming from. I understand the subtely, and have heard plenty of the really deep prog with that subtle melody. I love that stuff too. I mean what I am saying isn't that it all needs these long breakdowns like some stuff by Envio or Kalafut & Fygle, who are among my favorites, but that some of these elements even in stuff that doesn't use them as much, are still there and shouldn't be taken away. I am sure some other people, not just myself, would get bored with really subtle and deep trance music, and not appreciate some with some really energetic buildups and breakdowns thrown in as well. Even though i'm not a huge fan anymore, Armin does do this. He plays the deeper stuff without the huge, melodramatic breakdowns, but also throws in some of those huge anthems. I will admit to still playing alot of those huge anthems as well, but with time, lots of producers and DJs do and will evolve. So IMO there should be a little bit of both, some balance, is the best way to go, without doing completely away with it.

Basically to wrap up what i've been saying in short, if you guys don't like trance with big breakdowns in it, then don't listen to trance with big breakdowns in it. There's still plenty of trance that doesn't, like some prog, tech trance or psy trance or really hard stuff, or just listen to techno. I know someone told me in another thread that i'm ignorant because other genres of EDM have them as well, which i'm aware of, but they aren't all the same sounding breakdowns as trance has.