There's a thing that I've been tossing around for some time and since I don't know any religious people that I can ask this I thought I'd give it a try here - even if some of you might think it's a stupid subject.

Why do you perform religious rituals?

I mean: I can see the advantage to society of things like getting married, going to church etc. But what do you as a person gain from saying grace, going to Mecca, go to church every sunday etc.?

If it's because you're afraid that your deity won't let you in on the sweets in the afterlife, aren't you worshipping a mean god whose priorities are messed up? (If I were a god, I'd certainly rather have nice people around me than obedient fanatics.)

This is not meant to be a provocation, but a sincere desire to understand some I find puzzling.

Alright, well firstly I'm not religious person so I may not be the best person to answer this, but I do have some thoughts on the subject.

I think the main thing is that the ritualism constitutes a fairly hefty percentage of the sybolism involved in religion. I think going to church - as opposed to private worship or study - is the equivalent of wearing a crucifix on your necklace, the star of david on your collar or cap with the logo of your favourite baseball team on the front. It actively demonstrates - to yourself more than to anyone else - that you are an active participant in that particular community and ideology and you are willing to actively and habitually (in the case of going churches/synagogues/mosques etc.) commit yourself to it.

If there is a God, I agree, I doubt he'd be too nonplussed about it (and if he were concerned about whether Mr. Freddy Jones missed church last Sunday then I'd wonder whether he hasn't got more important things to do with his omniscientific potency). But I think people do it more for their own sake than to satisfy God's whim. I think the rationale behind it that the strict ritualism in itself constitutes a form worship in a way: it demonstrates to God the humility of his subjects, the way they are willing to adhere to his law, and the way they are willing to do it with an almost fanatical consistancy. Even if God weren't particularly bothered about being worshipped, I think he'd have to admire the faithfulness demonstrated by his people, and I think for many people this is why they do it. To demonstrate to God, formally, their commitment to him and to his idealogy.

Anyway, just the thoughts of this atheist observing from outside the loop.

Well I'm a Christian (a REAL one, not a person that says he's one) and I've been actively going to a Baptist church for about 4 years now. So hopefully I can clear a few things up for you.

First off, the reason why God even created anyone is to have people worship him, or at least that's how I view it. Ok, so why didn't God make everyone all nice and happy and let there be no bad things in the world? The reason is because he wants his people to have freedom to choose to do what they want. A good analogy is: A woman asks her husband to buy her a dozen roses. Well it's nice of him to buy her roses, but because she asked him to, it doesn't really count. It won't mean as much to her than if he had WILLINGLY gone out and bought her roses without her asking. Same principle applies to God. It won't mean as much to him if he MAKES his people worship him rather than them worshipping him freely.

So that brings us to the next question, why worship God? Because he deserves it. I see people everywhere saying that they hate God because of stuff that's been happening to them, or even worse, they'll say that God himself was the cause of all of the bad things in their life. This simply isn't true. God is sinless and will never hurt you. He will ALLOW bad things to happen to you, but never do bad things himself. And think about it, if you don't do anything for God or go against him your entire life, do you really think that he's going to do good things for you? That would make as much sense as a police officer giving you a reward for speeding rather than giving you a ticket.

And last, but not least, the rituals. Why oh why do we have rituals? Basically a ritual isn't too much different from a Holiday. I mean what do we gain by shooting off fireworks on the 4th of July, eating turkey and stuff on Thanksgiving, or celebrating New Year's Day? Hardly anything at all really. They only show that you care about those holidays, just like how Christians care about their rituals. They do it to show reverence to God, not to gain anything from it. That would seem pretty selfish if you just did it to get something for yourself.

Hope this clears up everything. Feel free to ask questions.

I think that religion and ideals are too subjective. I am not in any religion or anything..

It seems to me that everyone, no matter their religion or background have a subjective view on God and religion. And rightly so. There really isnt any guidelines or rules for certain things. Also the interpretation of the Bible is varried and differs from person to person.


To the original question. Why do people worship and goto their place to worship? I think its to become more intertwined with their religion and God. In reality, going to church and reading the bible is just an excuse for claiming to be a good person. Its really the inner self that is important. Some who goto church/synagogue/temple/mosques are not neccesarily better people than any other person who you meet on the street. May be...I guess..going to these places for some is to interact with others, or to find a deeper and more meaningful fullfillment in life.

And again i should mention, relgion and life is all too entirely subjective. Living an objective life is very difficult.

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Originally posted by PsycoEwok He will ALLOW bad things to happen to you, but never do bad things himself. And think about it, if you don't do anything for God or go against him your entire life, do you really think that he's going to do good things for you? That would make as much sense as a police officer giving you a reward for speeding rather than giving you a ticket.

Ahhh so I guess people dying of starvation just don't pray hard enough....


Well everybody has their own God. Hey don't write me off as a atheist bastard. But I don't think praying, going to church has much to do with it. It's more for the people's own sake. To be remembered of God. To give hope, and structure. I dunno.

(The following are my views and opinions, if you become offended....i'm not doing it purposely)

Going to church and reading the bible are not an excuse for being a good person. Being a christian, you believe that the Bible is infaliable (no errors) and you believe that christ died for the sins of the world and you confess to the lord that you are human and that you accept him into your heart. Going to church is kinda like school because the preacher technically teaches a lesson, every sunday. You apply that to your life. I'm not saying that christians are better than anyone because everyone is a sinner and continues to sin. See here is tta's version of life 1)there is a god 2)everyone goes through life trying to fill a void and some ppl fill it with temporary things such as alcohol and drugs and many other things. I've been a christian a long time and i believe i've filled that void permanantly. I'm happy and i tend not to worry about the future. Some will argue that they have found fulfillment elsewhere, i'm happy for you ppl. See ppl tend to give christianity or religion a bad rap because of the rules and other things involved. Also ppl don't realize what you believe reflects on how you act. People say religion and education don't mix but they fail to realize that what you believe is a part of who you are and how you act. So like it or not religion or beliefs will intertwined with education whether you like it or not. My only question is why have so many ppl got so mad at christianity as a whole ?, is it someone has wronged you or does religion just piss you ppl off?.

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Originally posted by PsycoEwok Well I'm a Christian (a REAL one, not a person that says he's one) and I've been actively going to a Baptist church for about 4 years now.

well thats b/c of where you live, but we'll forgive ya for it

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First off, the reason why God even created anyone is to have people worship him

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he wants his people to have freedom to choose to do what they want. It won't mean as much to him if he MAKES his people worship him rather than them worshipping him freely.

well what if i don't worship him? he created me anyway, and i am using my "freedom" by not worshipping him.

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why worship God? Because he deserves it. I see people everywhere saying that they hate God because of stuff that's been happening to them, or even worse, they'll say that God himself was the cause of all of the bad things in their life.

i don't "hate" god... i am not satanic. I just don't believe in god... or maybe i do... just not your god. I don't blame god for bad things in my life. I blame myself. God is an easy scapegoat.

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God is sinless and will never hurt you. He will ALLOW bad things to happen to you, but never do bad things himself.

Ok... but isn't got the omnipotent creator of all? so anything that happens to YOU is indirectly related to god... for instance if you get greedy and ruin your family over money, isn't it god's fault? b/c he "blinded" you to your morals? b/c he created you with those values? technically, he would be to blame.

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And think about it, if you don't do anything for God or go against him your entire life, do you really think that he's going to do good things for you?

i don't see what this has to do with going to church.... how does that do any good for god? b/c you put money in the collection plate? Download the song DHS - house of god and listen to the lyrics... Basically this concept IS taking freedoms away. Like god is "renting" us... 'ok you guys can do whatever you want, but just be sure to come back once a week to my house to "check in"'.....

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That would make as much sense as a police officer giving you a reward for speeding rather than giving you a ticket.

analogys off.... police officers exist, and i can see them...

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And last, but not least, the rituals. Why oh why do we have rituals? Basically a ritual isn't too much different from a Holiday. I mean what do we gain by shooting off fireworks on the 4th of July, eating turkey and stuff on Thanksgiving, or celebrating New Year's Day? Hardly anything at all really. They only show that you care about those holidays, just like how Christians care about their rituals. They do it to show reverence to God, not to gain anything from it. That would seem pretty selfish if you just did it to get something for yourself.

my family is not christian... yet we celebrate christmas. why? b/c its become so commercialized in the USA. its not about jesus anymore, its about santa claus and reindeer. Frankly, its a made-up holiday at this point. and i'm all for it. Nothing beats the spirit of Christmas season in the air. white snow, stockings over the fireplace, lights on the tree.... i LOVE that stuff... do we go to church on christmas eve? yeah. to worship? no. just to sing the christmas carols, (its fun), and to hold the candle up during "silent night".

call me sacriligious if you want, but i'm still a good person.

....man the government needs to build some movie theaters, theme parks, or clubs in middle-america!!

-ABT-

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Peace.

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Originally posted by torontotrance you believe that christ died for the sins of the world

i understand that but if thats the case, why do i still have to pray for my sins.... didn't christ already die for that?

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I'm not saying that christians are better than anyone

but isn't this view kinda insinuated? Think about it.... Christians believe that only christian church-goers are going to heaven, right? well what about all the jews, muslims, agnostics (like me), atheists going? hell? So we're all going to hell b/c we don't go to church?

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People say religion and education don't mix

no its religion and science that don't mix. See i'm a realist. and a scientist. (*note: NOT christian-scientist!!) The greeks originated religion to explain natural events and feelings... so did the Romans. Now in retrospect we know why the sun rose and set as it did... there was no Apollo. The oceans have Cyclones due to weather patterns - its not Neptune swinging his trident! Granted Jesus was "supposedly" born around... what? zero B.C.? zero A.D.? what happened to the 30 years before christ and after death? what about the millions of years before christ was born? was there no religion then? who did everyone worship? was there christmas? (hah, jk....) what did god do for all those millions of years? try to knock some girl up?

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My only question is why have so many ppl got so mad at christianity as a whole ?, is it someone has wronged you or does religion just piss you ppl off?.

heh, easy answer.... two reasons mainly... one: because it was forced-down my throat as i was growing up... i want to make my own decisions... i was forced (since birth i believe) to attend church... finally when i turned 16 i was allowed to make my own decision, and i stopped. I just wasn't buyin' into everything i was bein told...
2nd reason: the televangelists, collection plates, and all churches being tax-free.... those three things shouldn't legally be allowed to operate under the same banner...

anyways, no hostility meant towards ya TTA.

-ABT-

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Peace.

not to discuss the issue that Christian Creation would have to be extremely incredibly illogical. (creating it to look exactly like he didn't exist...) or the fact that the Bible itself, which would only hold its ground if intirely true, is full of erroneous statements and passages, and the fact that if Christianity was true, aprox. 97 percent of the world is going to hell, or in serious jeopardy of going to hell.

what i find funny about a "Christian God" is the paradox in his intellegence. Obviously, he is super-human, he does no wrong. But why are his emotions human? He thinks just like a human, in fact, God created man in his own image. God sees all, creates all, so if he can see what has been, what is, and what will be, why is he happy when all of a sudden, someone sees the light and worships him? He sees the intire perspective of the Universe, and all it's events, obviously something a human-like behaviour would not be compatible with.

anyways, I feel that religion is just another insanity of man. Not that that's a bad thing, so is society. I can say that I am insane, worrying about music, TV, current events, which really are extremely unimportant, but i choose to be ignorant of the big picture usually for 23 hours in the day and live a normal life in society. so I can't blame or be angry at anyone who believes his beliefs are correct in religion.

by the way, i am agnostic, and recognize that a human being cannot and probably will not comprehend our creation. therefore, we are doomed to constantly search for resolve, but never find it. Religion eases this, but I cannot give myself the bliss ignorance gives in religion.

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The father made fetuses with flesh licking ladies / While you and your mother were asleep in the trailer park / Thunderous sparks from the dark of the stadiums / The music and medicine you needed for comforting / So make all your fat, fleshy fingers fingers to moving / And pluck all your silly strings and / Bend all your notes for me and / Soft silly music is meaningful, magical / The movements were beautiful / All in your ovaries / All of them milking with green fleshy flowers / While powerful pistons were sugary sweet machines, / Smelling of semen all under the garden / Was all you were needing when you still believed in me.

of course i am getting into this one

i am not religious at all......i think that enite Adam & Eve story is a JOKE....scientifically speaking that story is an impossibility...you see relegious people make up these stories to have a sense of worth to make it seem like they know why we are all here and so on...

OK as far as me saying that the Adam & Eve story is a JOKE and not a possibility in science...well think about it...Archeologists (spelling?) have found fossils of dinosaurs dating back billions of years and even fossils of plant life that far back.....NOW...in the Bible (correct me if i am wrong)God built the World in 6 days and rested on the 7th right....ok well wasnt Adam & Eve made on like the 5th day...well if that is the case...then people who beleive that story are not very intelligent....how is that we can trace plant life and dinosaurs back billions of years ago yet we cant trace man back remotley close to that far back....it is a scientific fact that dinosaurs where before man existed...so Adam & Eve is a made up story .....sorry but if your talking about facts, its the truth....

I beleive there is a God, but i do not beleive he sits around and listens to peoples prayers....i beleive he created a life billions of years ago before dinosaurs and then as time went on we, as well as every other life form, evolved.....if you ask me thats the only theory that is possible....

As far as all those people who are SO into their religion and pray non-stop...i think they are entitled to their beleifs, no matter how far fetched they may be...but when you really break it down, PRAYER is a selfish act....in most cases.......People always pray for their sickness to get better, or for someone not to die, or for a great job, pr for some materialistic garbage, or what have you.....then you see people who accept awards at award shows and they always thank God for his " divine inspiration"....I mean come on thats a joke....do these people really think that God gives a shit about a new song or a new movie...NO....and why is it that these same people when they lose, never say its God will....prayer is a selfish act in most cases..

Also most religious beleifs like doing the sign of the cross , or prayer, or church every sunday or basically any act that shows your appreciation for God is a SUPERSTITION...people beleive that if they dont do it they will be damed...please...

hey this is my opinion....i think that there is a God but i highly doubt he some heavenly being that watches over are every move and casts bad fortune or sends you to hell for your wrong doings...i beleive most of it is made up wives tails that where created centuryies ago by people who had nothing better to do then to scare the shit out of people who did wrong and then it grew into a multi billion dollar corporation like it is now....

People are always concerned about being true to God...let me tell you something..the only person you should be true to is yourself..stop being so selfish by praying to a figure of your imagination that maore then likely could care less about your wants or needs...God does exist..i am most certain but he puts you on earth to fend for yourself...if you make it through life happy and well off then good for you...if you dont then oh well your loss....

AMEN

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Bring back 1994 NYC clubbing nights, cus the sh*t today is filled with junk parties and DJs that play sh*t House.....Zabiela, Sander, or Howells and all the rest suck and couldnt throw a night like it was in the early 90s in NYC!!!...Screw Twilo - give me Limelight circa 1993!!!

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Originally posted by tiesto14 and why is it that these same people when they lose, never say its God will....

thats funny but true...

reminds me of a famous George Carlin quip...

"I'm sick of all these Christian athletes.... always thanking god & jesus when they win... Never mention his name when they lose..."

"you never hear someone say 'God made me drop the ball'"

"and you never hear 'jesus tripped me up at the line of scrimmage'"

LoL.... there was more but i forgot it.

-ABT-

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Peace.

Quickly to answer your question ABT. You have to accept it, you can't just say i'm a good person and because of that i will go to heaven. It involves asking jesus christ to come into your life. Sounds difficult eh...nothing is easy. ANymore questions abt......pm me and i'd be happy to answer them.