Good one!

i think democracy is great and necessary. We'd be naive to think that our votes and decisions make a difference anyway. Regardless of who gets voted to office, most of the stuff necessary to keep the country going will get done anyway.

If the morons that didn't know what the EU was voted for politician "A", doesn't mean politician "A" is going to be an idiot too. And that politican "A" didn't get there (into the polls) b/c he's a moron... he's probably pretty good at politics and a lot of people already supported him to get there.

All the really important decisions have nothing to do with popular vote anyway, so it doesn't matter

I predict Renegade, Raving Lunatic, and B.S.E. will reply to this thread

-ABT-

___________________
Peace.

quote:

I predict Renegade, Raving Lunatic, and B.S.E. will reply to this thread

Heh, I'm that predictable then?

Well, the main issue with demoacracy is this: what's the difference between living in a dictatorship and living in a country where you can choose between one of two leaders, who rose fairly arbitrarily through the system (the public has no say in who the leader of either party is) and who have essentially the same attitudes and policies as each other anyway? In a dictatorship you have the choice of one individual, in democracy you have the choice of two, who hold identical ideologicies differing on only a few minor points.

What democracy does ensure, I guess, is "responsible government" (where if the government does something that the majoity of the public are unhappy with, then they will get voted out) which ensures that corruption or gross exploitation of power cannot really occur. But then, if both sides are guilty of the same things, where do you turn? If you think the politicians on both sides are lying, manipulative pigs who are interested in rising into power for the wrong reasons (i.e. power for power's sake instead of out of genuine concern for the public), who do you vote for? Do you waste you vote on a third party candidate? And what if he's exactly the same anyway? How much choice do we really have in the way our countries are run?

In someways it's our own fault. So many people lack the tools to assess the fundamental issues in an election, and either subserviently vote for the same party every election (out of habit or for any other reason - which defeats the point of responsible government when a party will uniformly be guaranteed at least a third of the vote, regardless of what they've done right or wrong, simply because they have so many stubborn, mindless supporters) or vote for the man ("ooo.... I like his attitude! What a sense of humour! Much better than that other boring git!") and not the policies ("Sorry, what's marketplace deregulation again?").

I'm not saying we should become anarchic, communinstic, totalitarianistic or anything else like that, I'm just saying that there are some serious flaws in the way politics is being conducted in many "democratic" nations, and not enough people quite understand the processes well enough. We need to better educate people, so they properly have the tools on how their country should be run. The only aim of the politician is to become as powerful as possible for as long as possible. There's nothing altruistic about them: even if an altruistic politician did turn up, the public would still be dumb enough to vote him out........ after all, who wants a man with morals managing our money!

I suggest you read Carl Sagan's Science as a Candle in the Dark trancaholic, it succeeds really well in pushing forward the notion that the public needs to be educated in rational, skeptical thought if society is to have any chance of bettering itself. For every intellignet man, voting for the right reasons or becoming politically active for the right reasons, there's 20 who aren't. The ingorant, unfortunately, usually have the strongest voice.

Now don't get me wrong. I believe in democracy and I believe in capitalism: but the problem is, democracy preaches freedom without responsibility. People under such systems have no obligation to be responsible for their fellow man, to be responsible for the caring of our planet and they certainly aren't responsible to learn anything. In an ideal world, we'd have these same systems of politics, but people would be educated and rational enough to make full use of them. We'd preach freedom and responsibility in commensurate chunks, such that people were free to do anything they wanted to, but had the cognitive tools to ensure they acted responsibly.

I don't know, I fear for humanity. Everything guided by the pursuit of money, and it's all beginning to suffer. Material hedonism and poor education (that is poor education in such doctrines as politics, philosophy, history etc.) make for a pretty grim picture. I do believe that democracy - in principle anyway - does work, but at the same time I don't think we're smart enough to know how to use it propery. To use an analogy, there's no point in owning a Porsche if you don't know how to drive.

Anyway, sorry if this post is a little strong. I'm tired and cranky and need a bed soon, and I'll probably revise some of the things I've said tomorrow.

Hope you all found this as enlightening as I did.

i say FUCK socialism...its like communism for noncommittal people! j/k

i dont know what to say here. there are benefits to EVERY type of govt, otherwise they wouldnt exist for long or be implemented. democracy is just the most agreeable because at least you GET a choice, regardless of how arbitrary it may be (or just seem). democracy in the US creates its own issues with class and prestigge, but im not sure thats a whole lot better than having a country where the health system suffers because there is no impetus to work for the extra education($$)....late/

___________________
'That's like telling a Kodiak bear to stop fcking older men.'

i dont believe in any type of government i believe in guns

so u believe in the US government Vivid??

i live in a democratic country, and i luv the freedom, so yeah, im pro-democratic, i just voted for Democrats Beverwijk (local elections )

___________________
I SUCK MONKEYS IN HELL

quote:

Originally posted by Gekhous so u believe in the US government Vivid?? i live in a democratic country, and i luv the freedom, so yeah, im pro-democratic, i just voted for Democrats Beverwijk (local elections )

i LOVE how the rest of the world thinks guns are thhe way everything is handled here...stop watching so much COPS! late/

___________________
'That's like telling a Kodiak bear to stop fcking older men.'

quote:

Originally posted by ABTsportsline I predict Renegade, Raving Lunatic, and B.S.E. will reply to this thread

I wouldn't go for a career as a fortune teller if I were you ABT
No, seriously - what's happened to RavingLunatic? Maybe I'm reading the wrong threads, but I haven't seen posts from him in a while now?!?

I tend to agree with Renegade (as I do in most non-spiritual matters) in that very few of the people running for office is doing it for anything but power itself. ABT, however, I'm a little shocked that you think that your vote doesn't really matter anyway. Why would you vote then? (and I know you voted for Bush, so don't tell me that you don't)

biz what are u talking abt all im saying is gimme a gun and the right target and ill make this world euphoric again

quote:

Originally posted by Vivid Boy biz what are u talking abt all im saying is gimme a gun and the right target and ill make this world euphoric again

hey dont make me pull out the D.E.! i wont negotiate here, i just shoot! late/

___________________
'That's like telling a Kodiak bear to stop fcking older men.'

I like ancient athenian democracy... it forced people to pay attention to what was going on.

doesnt matter waht i believe
one belief doesnt change the damn system...
i wouldnt know what to say really...ive only been a citizen in a democratic country..capitalism, communism, monarchy blah blah all the systems have exitsed but apparently only this one remains standing isnt that supposed to hint something...although there are a lot of controversies which system wouldnt then?..theyre all too much of an idealistic system, the progress has always been about making it better.
argh
id like to go back to the barbaric ancient roman times