I just have to say im sick of so many trance producers these days using so many fucking vocals, it just ruins wat trance is meant to be about, trance is meant to be hypnotic and get u in a "trance", so to speak. some nice build ups and everything can add to this and add to the emotion that i feel the best trance tracks can create. some vocals added sometimes suit it but why the fuck are so many people making their tracks revolve around the vocals and turning trance into something it was never meant to be?

tiesto's new single and armin van buuren's love you more are two songs that really come to mind. its just extremely cheesy and shit, the reason i liked trance so much in the first place was because it was the opposite of this, sure i can take a bit of the "cheese" but i still felt that alot of tracks in the past (like say flesh) kept the essence of wat made trance great whilst still utilising vocals which in some cases made the songs even better but they still would have been great without them. but now its getting more and more cheesy and there is more and more vocals (although this trend is getting alot older now) alot of it doesnt even sound like trance anymore, some of it is "good" but its never great.

why cant trance return to the similiar styles of man with no name or cosmic baby or these sort of artists, im so sick of songs like stoned in love and shivers (although i liked shivers when i first heard it but like all songs of its type they get fucking annoying).

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Originally posted by the gamemaster but why the fuck are so many people making their tracks revolve around the vocals and turning trance into something it was never meant to be?

Money.

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d&b session 20090519
My take on... (various mixes planned, updated when I can be arsed)

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Originally posted by the gamemaster why cant trance return to the similiar styles of man with no name or cosmic baby or these sort of artists, im so sick of songs like stoned in love and shivers (although i liked shivers when i first heard it but like all songs of its type they get fucking annoying).

Dude, trance stopped being 'hypnotic' years ago, with or without vocals.

You want more hypnotic stuff, buy some goa/psy, trance is just not like that any more.

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Originally posted by kr00t0n Dude, trance stopped being 'hypnotic' years ago, with or without vocals. You want more hypnotic stuff, buy some goa/psy, trance is just not like that any more.

yup

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Originally posted by kr00t0n You want more hypnotic stuff, buy some goa/psy, trance is just not like that any more.

+1

I shyed away from those for a long time because it seemed that every psy release had the same plastic drums, the same cheesy squeals and effects and the same corny vocal samples... But lately it's been getting more innovative, and somewhat closer to it's roots. More 909-like kickdrums, tb-303s and slower tempos.

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Originally posted by basd Money.

+1

Now days nobodys prepared to listen to music unless it's got vocals in...brain can't take it like, can't think of how to describe people like it.

Yeah, it seems like everyone has to do a new CH00N with anita kelsey, justine suissa etc. I don't think all vocal tracks are shit, but so many of them are just cheesy and dull with meaningless lyrics and forgettable music. I find that many times the vocals have a central role in the song but there is no interesting relation between the vocals and all the rest. It's like here we have some vocals, we do a track, everything is in key, here are some fitting chords, she has a beautiful voice, that's it, but there is no real interplay between the vocals and the music so the result is just insipid, like if the vocals were just dumped on top of an existing track. Ironically there are examples of much better results being achieved by throwing an acapella on top of an unrelated track.

However, there is so much great music, great trance, with and without vocals, so we should concentrate on the good stuff.

You mentioned the king, MWNN, so why not Paint A Picture or Seratonin Sunrise.

Concerning psytrance, just like in all genres there are, and there has always been, loads of crap and loads of great music.

It just seems as if the songs stop, then the vocals come in, as if we were waiting for them.

Down with vocals!

At first when I started listening to trance, I didn't like it because it had no vocals. Before that I used to listen to Eurodance, Freestlye, etc. other edm with singing. But now I enjoy just the music and sometimes do get annoyed when a good trance track adds vocal.

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Originally posted by SMC It's like here we have some vocals, we do a track, everything is in key, here are some fitting chords, she has a beautiful voice, that's it, but there is no real interplay between the vocals and the music so the result is just insipid, like if the vocals were just dumped on top of an existing track. Ironically there are examples of much better results being achieved by throwing an acapella on top of an unrelated track.

Yea, I agree with what you are saying, adding the vocal doesn't REALLY add anything to the music other than make it more accessible to mainstream folks.

As far as interplay, you got any examples of tracks that do what you're talking about? I'm not quite sure what you mean.

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Originally posted by SMC Yeah, it seems like everyone has to do a new CH00N with anita kelsey, justine suissa etc. I don't think all vocal tracks are shit, but so many of them are just cheesy and dull with meaningless lyrics and forgettable music. I find that many times the vocals have a central role in the song but there is no interesting relation between the vocals and all the rest. It's like here we have some vocals, we do a track, everything is in key, here are some fitting chords, she has a beautiful voice, that's it, but there is no real interplay between the vocals and the music so the result is just insipid, like if the vocals were just dumped on top of an existing track. Ironically there are examples of much better results being achieved by throwing an acapella on top of an unrelated track.

Indeed. I've always claimed that if you're gonna make a vocal track, create the vocal first and build the tune around it, not otherwise. Justine Suissa has a sweet voice and i think it's disrespectfull to throw it in tunes like Armin - Simple things (It's actually worse than Milk inc.)

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Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Originally posted by ClearVision As far as interplay, you got any examples of tracks that do what you're talking about? I'm not quite sure what you mean.

Perhaps it's not the appropriate word, what i'm refering to is quite subtle and not really an objective property. The notion that the instruments and the vocals together make up a whole, the instruments leave room for the vocals and the vocals leave room for the instruments. The contrary is when instruments, vocals or both are too "big" in relation each other. However, there is room for opinions about this. Maybe this is only important to me because of my personal taste and the way i interpret music.

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Originally posted by Soeder Indeed. I've always claimed that if you're gonna make a vocal track, create the vocal first and build the tune around it, not otherwise.

I don't doubt that many artists actually do that. But it can still end up sounding like they've done the other way around because it's not to be taken for granted that the track turns out to be more than decent just because a good procedure has been followed, there is so much more to writing music. That's why a remix that utilizes existing vocals can be much better than an original work, because the important things are the musical ideas.

Last edited by SMC on Mar-07-2007 at 21:10