...actually do anything useful with it?

i have been reading trance-addict threads for ages and pay close attention to the production forums mainly.
i like looking at other peoples home studios on the pictures topic but sometimes have a real problem understanding why so many people have gear costing $$$$$$ when no matter what they do it sounds like generic boring stuff that could be made on fruity loops and the bundled vst synthhesisers. In particular i see some studios that looks so good that i search for music by the studio owners and then wonder how the hell they could need so much good gear for the rubbish they have made. its more the total lack of artistic ability than the technical side of things i guess. why are there so many gear heads here, and so little musicians?

It's easier to buy gear than it is to improve music-writing skills.

Doesn't mean that everyone with nice gear makes bad music, in fact I would say it's often the opposite as many people with *really* nice studios have been in the game for at least five or ten years and honed their skills and broadened their tastes and artistic efforts over that time. There are probably even more crappy songwriters out there who downloaded a cracked copy of Cubase or FL a year ago and are well on their way to making generic junk that copies the style of one or two of their favorite artists.

Last edited by MrJiveBoJingles on Nov-03-2009 at 18:59

quote:

Originally posted by DEAD_MOOSE why are there so many gear heads here, and so little musicians?

You should look up the definition of musician - it's a person who makes music. Aside from perhaps a few trolls, every person on this forum is a musician. A few questions for you:

1) what do you define as "pro" gear? Based on your FLS statement, I assume that you are referring to hardware? Guess what? Hardware is not "pro" gear any more than software is "amateur" gear. Until the last few decades, everybody learned on hardware - some of us started on bargain bin junk and others started on pro gear or custom hand-made instruments handed down from our parents, etc.

2) Why the hell do you care what people spend their own hard-earned money on? If a beginner wants to buy a $3000 Andromeda or Moog to learn on, how is that a problem for you? Some people like things like knobs, sliders, keyboards, etc. and understand that the resale value of hardware is generally much higher than software.

3) Since you made the accusatory remarks, why don't you show some backbone and give us some examples of these gearheads/non-musicians who have $$$$$ invested in their studio, but are producing "rubbish" and have a "total lack or artistic ability" in your opinion. Oh yeah, and while you're at it, why don't you provide a link to your own music so we can put your opinions regarding other people's music in perspective?

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quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik You should look up the definition of musician - it's a person who makes music. Aside from perhaps a few trolls, every person on this forum is a musician. A few questions for you: 1) what do you define as "pro" gear? Based on your FLS statement, I assume that you are referring to hardware? Guess what? Hardware is not "pro" gear any more than software is "amateur" gear. Until the last few decades, everybody learned on hardware - some of us started on bargain bin junk and others started on pro gear or custom hand-made instruments handed down from our parents, etc. 2) Why the hell do you care what people spend their own hard-earned money on? If a beginner wants to buy a $3000 Andromeda or Moog to learn on, how is that a problem for you? Some people like things like knobs, sliders, keyboards, etc. and understand that the resale value of hardware is generally much higher than software. 3) Since you made the accusatory remarks, why don't you show some backbone and give us some examples of these gearheads/non-musicians who have $$$$$ invested in their studio, but are producing "rubbish" and have a "total lack or artistic ability" in your opinion. Oh yeah, and while you're at it, why don't you provide a link to your own music so we can put your opinions regarding other people's music in perspective?

+1,000

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quote:

Originally posted by meriter Your primary focus should be making good music. That's all. No one gives a shit how you do it. And the people that do are fags.

Great first post. I bet you're not trying to stir up shit at all.

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quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik You should look up the definition of musician - it's a person who makes music. Aside from perhaps a few trolls, every person on this forum is a musician. A few questions for you: 1) what do you define as "pro" gear? Based on your FLS statement, I assume that you are referring to hardware? Guess what? Hardware is not "pro" gear any more than software is "amateur" gear. Until the last few decades, everybody learned on hardware - some of us started on bargain bin junk and others started on pro gear or custom hand-made instruments handed down from our parents, etc. 2) Why the hell do you care what people spend their own hard-earned money on? If a beginner wants to buy a $3000 Andromeda or Moog to learn on, how is that a problem for you? Some people like things like knobs, sliders, keyboards, etc. and understand that the resale value of hardware is generally much higher than software. 3) Since you made the accusatory remarks, why don't you show some backbone and give us some examples of these gearheads/non-musicians who have $$$$$ invested in their studio, but are producing "rubbish" and have a "total lack or artistic ability" in your opinion. Oh yeah, and while you're at it, why don't you provide a link to your own music so we can put your opinions regarding other people's music in perspective?

1. 'Pro' Gear doesnt have to be hardware i know this. You got to be in some way or another thinking 'pro' when you invest in a waves bundle/logic pro/an access virus/moog.this stuff costs a fortune.

2.i dont really care if someone wants to waste their money on gear they will never take full advantage of - i have on many occasions benefitted from buying used gear cheaper off these fools who jump in head first before knowing if they will really stick with the whole music making bandwagon thing thats going on. i suppose im sour because im an artistic thinker who requires a bit more gear than i can afford (being artistic and a bit deep means i struggle to stick with a dead end job like office work). on the flip, the majority of people who can afford the type of gear i require tend to be the types who are unartistic, non musical people who are more of the mindset to fit right in working for an insurance broker or telesales firms (thus the solid day job can pay for this stuff).

3.im not going to post my own music because i dont care for the opinions of those who will be trying their hardest to pick my works to pieces. Id say though that your myspace page pretty much sums up what i mean in terms of musical output. sure, the style is fluffy, happy, bouncy etc. sounds clear and well produced yes, but from reading your kit list i see an access virus, nord lead, etc, but from listening to the tracks on your player i dont hear any real milking of your equipment, or very much creativity. i just hear sounds that sound like the virus/nord presets that the bundled fl synths try to replicate.

surely someone else must see and hear what im talking about? this sort of thing is exactly the reason why music is at its all time low. im not trying to be nasty, im being honest and truthful to my own opinions. and the fact that you jumped in so quick with a carefully thought out response would suggest that in some way i hit a sore point or touched upon a deep rooted thought you might have had youself. can you honestly say that you really make the most of all that gear you got, and that you wouldnt make just as much progress with a midi controller and a copy of reason?

So if you don't want to post your own music:

What electronic artists (present or past) do you think show a high level of creativity and sounds that don't sound like FL studio presets? Curious what you are using as standards of comparison.

OP is coming across as an untalented bitter hack with a dead end job.

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I have gear and software because I enjoy having it and because I believe it adds something to my workspace which I was missing out on before. I don't mind having spent a couple of grand this year on music gear/software/samples. If my songs sound like a fruity loops preset to you or anybody else I wouldn't be happy but on the other hand that doesn't matter much either.

I take pride in the stuff that I have collected (and worked for) and I enjoy my own productions and enjoy making them even more. That's what matter's most. Your opinion is immaterial to me. If you like it I'm happy, if you don't I don't mind, I have more important things to worry about .

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quote:

If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

To most people it's mainly a hobby anyway.

Some people spend their money on cars but it doesn't mean they are race car drivers. It's the same with music gear.

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quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery To most people it's mainly a hobby anyway. Some people spend their money on cars but it doesn't mean they are race car drivers. It's the same with music gear.

^ my thoughts exactly

quote:

Originally posted by DEAD_MOOSE Id say though that your myspace page pretty much sums up what i mean in terms of musical output. sure, the style is fluffy, happy, bouncy etc. sounds clear and well produced yes, but from reading your kit list i see an access virus, nord lead, etc, but from listening to the tracks on your player i dont hear any real milking of your equipment, or very much creativity. i just hear sounds that sound like the virus/nord presets that the bundled fl synths try to replicate.

Fair enough. I don't claim to have the most original sounds and, if you've been hanging around here very long at all as you mentioned in your OP, then there's a good chance that you've heard my reasoning for this - I prefer the vocals to be the main focus of my tracks and I try to avoid having too many sounds that detract from that. I use expensive hardware gear because I've been a musician and synth programmer for 30+ years and that's the way I prefer to work. Now that I'm older and settled down with a family and pretty high-paying career, I'm at a place in my life where I can afford to have nice gear. Unfortunately, my family/career/lifestyle limit my personal time a lot, so I don't get to use it as much as I'd like, but that's a whole other story.

Also, I will mention that the 20-some songs on my myspace player represent a small fraction of the music I've written/produced in my life (I have a degree in music, btw), so you may want to be a little careful about your assumptions when it comes to making generalizations about other people's capabilities - just because someone isn't showing you the range of one's creativity, knowledge, etc., on their myspace page doesn't mean that it isn't greater than your perception.

quote:

Originally posted by DEAD_MOOSE and the fact that you jumped in so quick with a carefully thought out response would suggest that in some way i hit a sore point or touched upon a deep rooted thought you might have had youself. can you honestly say that you really make the most of all that gear you got, and that you wouldnt make just as much progress with a midi controller and a copy of reason?

Yes, this "deep-rooted thought" gets discussed here a lot, that's why we're so quick to jump in with these types of responses. And, yes, I could easily (and sometimes do) make the music I make with far less gear and a simpler setup, but I don't want to. Also, as I mentioned previously, I like the resale value of hardware. Now that I have the initial investment out of the way, I buy/sell/trade gear pretty often for the sheer joy of playing with new toys, with no out-of-pocket cost (and, often at a profit). That doesn't work with software.

quote:

Originally posted by DEAD_MOOSE 3.im not going to post my own music because i dont care for the opinions of those who will be trying their hardest to pick my works to pieces.

Well, then there's no nice way to say this - you can talk about how "deep" and "artistic" you are until the cows come home, but if you are too afraid of something as simple and harmless as having your music criticized, then you are a coward. And, you're the worst kind of coward and hypocrite because you take the time to point out other's perceived flaws and blame us for not being creative, but are too afraid to show us how creative you are??? It's not like we really care; it happens all the time on EDM forums - the people who blast others for not being creative are almost invariably the ones who fall into one of two categories: 1) their music is even less creative, so they play the blame game to make themselves feel superior, or 2) they produce very "creative" music that is weird for the sake of being weird and appeals to almost nobody.

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Last edited by cryophonik on Nov-03-2009 at 20:54