nowadays a lot of tunes you just hear a motif ,maybe a hook if they decide to use one and the main motif and a second main motif for the outtro.

but after doing some research i got some new ideas on a few things let me know if this is over producing.

for a track youd have each one of these elements but not all in the same order;

hook
first motif
inversions/harmony
hook1 and hook 2 with hook 2 being the answer to hooks1 question
pre chorus
main melody

a good example of this is robert miles children

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2...-children_music

so basically is a hook,first motif, and a prechorus all needed before you get to the main melody.


i prefer to just let the music flow and have the tune take me wherever as im producing .

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Just go where the track takes you. I read a book about "mapping out" a track before you get to work....like what you did above. And I couldn't disagree more. Just go. Write your first basic elements and then go. If its destined to be another formulaic crapper, finish it if u want. If you get a dream to turn it into a never before heard 9 minute super progressive build, do it. If you want to experiment with pitch shifting and go classical on that ass, do it. Stop creating barriers before you even open your DAW or enter your studio

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quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Wiley Just go where the track takes you. I read a book about "mapping out" a track before you get to work....like what you did above. And I couldn't disagree more. Just go. Write your first basic elements and then go. If its destined to be another formulaic crapper, finish it if u want. If you get a dream to turn it into a never before heard 9 minute super progressive build, do it. If you want to experiment with pitch shifting and go classical on that ass, do it. Stop creating barriers before you even open your DAW or enter your studio

111% agree.

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Now with extra singles!
my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

I find for me the best approach is to separate form and ideas.

For example. Almost every composer i've done orchestrating for has the themes done ( melodies i suppose in EDM ) and where they want it to go. For example, they will have a few bars and then say they want it to go to this key , introduce this melody, go to that key ..

So i think it is good to work on the micro and macro aspects of the track. If you are a beginner however , I think it is good just to dive in. But if you plan to do something interesting , looking at the big picture is invaluable.

Yeah I'm not always an advocate for "mapping out" a track like you did but it's definitely helpful to know what you're doing before you start working on it. I usually make the chord progression, then the main melody, and then create a nice pool of variations and melodies based on those two things. Then I'll figure out what elements I want to put first, when I want to introduce new ones, etc.

The overall workflow is still spontaneous enough to be creative but I definitely have a plan going in.

And to answer your question, no, that's not overproducing. If anyone would be guilty of that here it's me, it's not unusual for my tracks to have upwards of 10 distinct countermelodies and little harmonic elements playing at one time.

quote:

Originally posted by Kysora And to answer your question, no, that's not overproducing. If anyone would be guilty of that here it's me, it's not unusual for my tracks to have upwards of 10 distinct countermelodies and little harmonic elements playing at one time.

For a guy who doesn't do any production that I know of, this guy is an excellent writer concerning music and speaks well to the aspects of over-producing.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J It means the production values are to the detriment of the track. Usually this is because too much time has audibly been spent on the production and not enough on the writing - the creative focus on the track has resulted in brilliant technological production quality but atrophic musical content. It can also mean that the production values are audibly distracting. The track may be perfectly well written but sounds too busy, too glossy, too loud, the ideas drowned out by the studio tinkering that has been thrown in. Interestingly, when something is criticised as poorly produced (rarely dubbed "underproduced") it's almost never because of an inverse of the first option - you don't hear people say "Too much time was spent on great writing!" When something is underproduced, the production quality is so shitty and amateur it distracts from the musical content, or just doesn't accentuate the music properly. If you doubt the existence of overproduction, you've clearly not suffered BT's newest album. Take a listen to that and you'll understand exactly what it means.

He goes further into detail, in this thread:

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...37&forumid=1&s=

And, FWIW - I don't think your music qualifies as being over-produced, in the slightest. Over production is merely connotative of an imbalance between a lacking quality of the music and an over-indulgence in production technique.

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Now with extra singles!
my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

the only thing that is being advanced regarding music is production so I do think it not such a crime to place the production on the same , if not a higher level than the music. What has made music interesting in the last 20 years is the production, not the musical content. Would be nice to have both but I do think the production aspect needs to be explored more so than the traditional musical aspect.

quote:

Originally posted by Mad for Brad the only thing that is being advanced regarding music is production so I do think it not such a crime to place the production on the same , if not a higher level than the music. What has made music interesting in the last 20 years is the production, not the musical content. Would be nice to have both but I do think the production aspect needs to be explored more so than the traditional musical aspect.

I can't really disagree with this, but then I suppose it's about definitions. Our recent troll poster who asked for a how to on how to make a SuperSaw pad put up, as his example, a piece of work which I thought was musically retarded and profoundly "over-produced".



So far as production technology and technique being a current path of advancement for music - yes - I think you're right. But when the music is functionally hog-tied and production is used to garner a high gloss sheen - that would qualify as over-production, would it not?

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Now with extra singles!
my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

there is nothing interesting or new about the production in that song so I would say it fails on both fronts. And the dance choreograph left me feeling empty. The girls are also not that attractive. Must be some indie label trying to play the pop game.

Over-production is not about using too many elements in your track. It's about using too many uncecessary elements in your track.

Whether you have a complex 32 track mix or a 4 intrument based mix, all can be over produced or or vice versa.

Don't be too self conscious about adding elements to your track during the production process. Just make sure you are able o be objective of your own material.

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quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker And, FWIW - I don't think your music qualifies as being over-produced, in the slightest. Over production is merely connotative of an imbalance between a lacking quality of the music and an over-indulgence in production technique.

If that was directed towards me, I'd agree -- I'm biased, of course, but I would never say my music has any unnecessary elements in it. I was just using my own music as an example of relative complexity in trance, you can cram a lot into a track without going overboard if you know what you're doing.

quote:

Originally posted by Mad for Brad The girls are also not that attractive. Must be some indie label trying to play the pop game.

Are your eyes painted on?

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