It's an interesting article I read today and it makes a lot of valid points that I agree with and some that I don't. It does make some valid arguments as to why Europe and the world is so anti-American in general though. It is interesting to note, however, that Europe is at its highest state of anti-Americanism at point when the threat to European security is at its lowest. But I agree with the article on the point that Bush has thoroughly botched up diplomacy over the past 2 years. Please reply intelligentely if you've read the article. If there's an escalation to flaming I'll just delete the thread .

Beware it's LOOONNNNNGGGGGGGGG!

http://www.msnbc.com/news/885222.asp?vts=031720031200

A very good article, I must say. Imo it describes exactly why most people are anti-american here. Unfortunately, Bush is gonna stay in the white house for 2 more years or so, and since he's not showing any signs that he might change his behaviour, I only expect the anti-american sentiment in the world to grow larger. It seems to me that he already lost France as an ally, especially since the US diplomacy attacked the French in the UN today in a rather insulting way. Rediculous attacks on the french, like renaming french fries to freedom fries, and boycotting french products are not harming France in any way, infact they are making them look good and innocent, while they are making the US look really low in the world oppinion. And it looks like he might loose Germany and Russia as allies as well. Let's not forget that the relations with China are starting to cool down also. Looks like he's gonna do damage to the country that will take 10 good presidents in a row to repair.

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1+1=10

i enjoyed this article, esp since its from a US source - just goes to show you that not everyone is keeping their mouths shut around Bush. or that all Americans are just ignorant to world events. sadly, it wont change anyones mind on the other 299 million Americans that ARENT Dubya|

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'That's like telling a Kodiak bear to stop fcking older men.'

Yes it didn't seem too anti-American or anti-Europe. I think that it touched on the popularity factor to be anti-American nicely. Did anyone else find it odd how current European opposition against what's happening now is far greater than opposition to America's war against vietnam? Or the basing of Pershing missiles in Europe? I guess it's ok to give the great satan a blank check when there's an even redder satan living in your back yard.

i liked the part discussing the Cold War and GDPs, its strange to think that the US' is lower now, yet people are convinced we are more powerful...

i also liked how they showed when Clinton skipped the UN security in Haiti, et al and no one even seemed to notice.

beyond that its somewhat disturbing, if only because of the sentiments displayed by some of the TAs here|

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'That's like telling a Kodiak bear to stop fcking older men.'

Very nice article occrider!

theres too many things on that article to applaud to, but its written very well

Cheers!

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Originally posted by occrider It is interesting to note, however, that Europe is at its highest state of anti-Americanism at point when the threat to European security is at its lowest.

I haven't exactly read the entire article yet, but I will try to bring up a point in regards to the above.

It seems to me that, anti-Americanism isn't stemming directly as a response to a perceived American threat per se, but rather from the spectre of American imperialism that is beginning to reach out.

An apt metaphor is the shadow of Sauron's hand stretching across the world from LOTR.

Of course, it's not that bad (I do hope), but I would try to say that America's near explicit self-proclamation of World Owner is what is upsetting so many people.

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Originally posted by Alccode I haven't exactly read the entire article yet, but I will try to bring up a point in regards to the above. It seems to me that, anti-Americanism isn't stemming directly as a response to a perceived American threat per se, but rather from the spectre of American imperialism that is beginning to reach out. An apt metaphor is the shadow of Sauron's hand stretching across the world from LOTR. Of course, it's not that bad (I do hope), but I would try to say that America's near explicit self-proclamation of World Owner is what is upsetting so many people.

Ah but you see that hand has not changed over the past 50 years. It was hovering over everything just as before. Think of foreign policy in the past, korea, vietnam, cuba, S. America, etc. The only difference was that people relished in having that hand there when the Soviet hand was just as big and far more menacing.

I can't believe I'm using a hand to make an argument

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Ah but you see that hand has not changed over the past 50 years. It was hovering over everything just as before. Think of foreign policy in the past, korea, vietnam, cuba, S. America, etc. The only difference was that people relished in having that hand there when the Soviet hand was just as big and far more menacing.

Wow, good point! But I think there is a slight difference today. Then, the hand was there for protection (if we take historical intentions ideally). But now, it seems to be more of an authoritative hand. Perhaps with a baton in it?

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I can't believe I'm using a hand to make an argument

LOL!

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Originally posted by Alccode Wow, good point! But I think there is a slight difference today. Then, the hand was there for protection (if we take historical intentions ideally). But now, it seems to be more of an authoritative hand. Perhaps with a baton in it?

I think that the baton was always there, and I don't disagree that maybe it might be time to put away the baton. I'm merely pointing out that in the past people were VERY comfortable with that baton being there. And nowadays people are acting as if it's an unbearable weight over their shoulders when nothing's really changed about the baton.

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Originally posted by occrider I think that the baton was always there, and I don't disagree that maybe it might be time to put away the baton. I'm merely pointing out that in the past people were VERY comfortable with that baton being there. And nowadays people are acting as if it's an unbearable weight over their shoulders when nothing's really changed about the baton.

Maybe not about the baton, but certainly about the circumstances. Perhaps today it can be said that there is no real need for the baton. But this is a point that can be argued for both ways.

Anyway I have to run somewhere and I can't respond more intelligently than that right now.

In any case my only goal was to just bring up a possibility as to why the anti-American sentiment is higher despite a lack in any direct threat.

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Originally posted by Alccode In any case my only goal was to just bring up a possibility as to why the anti-American sentiment is higher despite a lack in any direct threat.

Any my only goal is to bring up the possibility that some of the anti-American sentiments are unjustified. You are correct about the baton however, it can be argued with both ways. I think that it should be wielded by more nations than just the US. I don't really mind the split from the UN because my opinion of the UN is non too high but I was very troubled by the split of NATO.