quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Wow. I must say I am impressed. You gave me a link defining 'Jihad' from somebody who is criticising Islam. Wow. .... YEARGHAA!

Wow, Georgey has just pulled a Dean.

Simmer down now there Georgey, get over your denial and let your anger out...

To be constructive though, I won't get between your little love affair with NeoPhon, but let me add this point for either of your arguments.

Wheter the Islamo-facist have declared they want to spread Islam over the entire world, or just some of it, they are expanding beyond their traditional Basins.

Islamo-facisim has spread into Europe (Balkans, and a small but growing momvement in France), Checnya, Africa (think how radical Niger has become in the past 10 years), Indonesia, Malaysia... etc

So they are defintely not limiting themselves to the "traditional" middle eastern countries, and expand the world over. Whether this is their goal or not is another matter, but the facts are quiet nicely written on the wall for us if we want to look.

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Originally posted by Alccode Interesting, Yoepus. Thanks for the input.

Glad at least some people can debate civilized here, even if they have diametrically opposed views

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Collectively, entire peoples have very short attention spans and memories, so you would have to "remind" them very often.

Tell you true, if the USA invades one more country, even if done with pseudo-randomness (or they could just attack Korea), I believe the rest of the nations will play-dead or do whatever the USA asks them to for at least the next 15 years.

The downside of that is not necissairly violence begets violence, but violence begets military hardware. If they USA goes lose canon, many nations,especially those with friendlier relatiosn with the USA are going to balance out the USA with a force built up.

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And this ties into the violence begets violence idea, of which I am positively sure. Are the 'hawks' on this board also convinced of this? Based on their policies and ideas (your ideas, I should say), I think not.

Look, if we honeslty believed violence begets violence we wouldn't champion this way of thinking. Violence doesn't always begets violence, violence is a very good solution. If it wasn't proof enough for the past 6000+ years of human civilized history we have used war and violence to positively settle our disputes, than I don't know what is. If violence did not work, we wouldn't use it, its that simple.

Let me illustrate this with your example:

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Think of it this way -- if someone slaps you, what are you going to do? Slap them back! And if not, if for some chance you are of a higher understanding and development as a person, you will not slap them back. But we know that mobs work on the lowest common denominator. You "slap" a mob (or people, or nation), and they will retaliate.

What if the guy that slaps you has a gun?

You see my point now, would you slap back a guy with a gun?

Because the USA has a gun, and the "middle eastern mobs" don't, they have a peashoter.

And carrying your analogy further this is how I see it. The "middle eastern mob" has a pea shoter, and they slap the USA, the USA has a gun but doesn't show it to them.. it only slaps them back, they slap back. I say its about time the USA shows them its carrying a gun.

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Last edited by Yoepus on Mar-14-2004 at 02:33

As loud as many attempted to speak up against the U.S led invasion of Iraq, the world needs to be just as vocal protesting in every nation to say no to the scum of terrorists acts. How many more bombs must go off in the name of freedom fighters and innocent blood sheds before humanity is disgusted with these beastial acts of murder. Sadly there will always be those who find justifications for such acts as in Madrid's train bombing.

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quote:

Originally posted by NYCTrancefan As loud as many attempted to speak up against the U.S led invasion of Iraq, the world needs to be just as vocal protesting in every nation to say no to the scum of terrorists acts. How many more bombs must go off in the name of freedom fighters and innocent blood sheds before humanity is disgusted with these beastial acts of murder. Sadly there will always be those who find justifications for such acts as in Madrid's train bombing.

Sorry, who exactly has been justifying these attacks? I dont think you'll find many who do, on this forum or anywhere else for that matter (outside Islamic circles). IIRC, there was only one country in the entire world that did not condemn and speak out against the 11/9 attacks, and that was Iraq...

You seem to think that it is only America who cares about terrorism (and even America/Americans only really started to care after 11/9...where do you think the IRA got all its money and support from?)

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Yoepus: "Wheter the Islamo-facist have declared they want to spread Islam over the entire world, or just some of it, they are expanding beyond their traditional Basins."

If their goal is to overthrow the Middle East governments and try and force the West out of the Islamic world then of course they will not restrict themselves to fighting in the Middle East. Thats what terrorists do...

Palestinians attack Israel proper, yet they dont want to control that. Likewise, the IRA used to attack mainland Britain, but they had no desire to conquer and rule the UK did they?

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley If their goal is to overthrow the Middle East governments and try and force the West out of the Islamic world then of course they will not restrict themselves to fighting in the Middle East. Thats what terrorists do... Palestinians attack Israel proper, yet they dont want to control that. Likewise, the IRA used to attack mainland Britain, but they had no desire to conquer and rule the UK did they?

these are not just "attacks" in niger, bosnia, chechnya, indonesia, etc. it is with the intent of overthrowing the set government at those places.

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quote:

these are not just "attacks" in niger, bosnia, chechnya, indonesia, etc. it is with the intent of overthrowing the set government at those places.

Yes, they are all Muslim countries...(or countries where Muslims make up a large proportion of the population)

quote:

Originally posted by Alccode And this ties into the violence begets violence idea, of which I am positively sure. Are the 'hawks' on this board also convinced of this? Based on their policies and ideas (your ideas, I should say), I think not.

i will speak up and say that violence does not nessicarly begit violence. and the inverse is also wrong, that peace begits peace.

violence can occur in peaceful times, revolutions and civil wars based out of differing philosophies. look at haiti for example although the country is dirt poor, they have been in peace since 1994 but now the people are fed up and started to violently protest the current government.

and sometimes violence stops further violence from happening. in the case of the american civil war, after the war a set base of government was agreed upon (agian by force) and that put an end to the fighting

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If God is the answer, it must have been a very stupid question.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Yes, they are all Muslim countries...(or countries where Muslims make up a large proportion of the population)

but they are not in the middle east

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If God is the answer, it must have been a very stupid question.

Damn! I seem to have been rumbled by a student of geography!

Er...anyway...oh yea, that was it...so?

The Islamic world = Islamic countries! (And there are a fair few Islamic countries outside the Middle East...)

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley The Islamic world = Islamic countries! (And there are a fair few Islamic countries outside the Middle East...)

i missed that point, guess i deserved that insult, hehe

but anyways most of those countries have only recently become part of the islamic world, and although im not saying islamo-facist extremism was the cause of this, it is now a base of operation for such factions.

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If God is the answer, it must have been a very stupid question.

No surprise here! Govt. of Spain confirming members of an Islamic terror cell have been arrested in connection with the bombing.

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Media now reporting 5 members arrested, mostly from Morocco. The rest from Indian Kashmir.

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