quote:

Originally posted by Renegade You got to admire his tenacity though. He's been posting now for nearly 12 straight hours. :-/

Although we may have all the constituents of matter at our disposal, we cannot produce consciousness from them. All the material elements may be present in a dead man, but we cannot revive that man to consciousness. This body is not like a machine. When a part of a machine breaks down, it can be replaced, and the machine will work again, but when the body breaks down and consciousness leaves the body, there is no possibility of our replacing the broken part and rejuvenating the consciousness. The soul is different from the body, and as long as the soul is there, the body is animate. But there is no possibility of making the body animate in the absence of the soul.
Because we cannot perceive the soul by our gross senses, we deny it. Actually there are so many things that are there which we cannot see. We cannot see air, radio waves, or sound, nor can we perceive minute bacteria with our blunt senses, but this does not mean they are not there. By the aid of the microscope and other instruments, many things can be perceived which had previously been denied by the imperfect senses. Just because the soul, which is atomic in size, has not been perceived yet by senses or instruments, we should not conclude that it is not there. It can, however, be perceived by its symptoms and effects.


* THE HARE KRISHNA SAINT TORTURED AND POISONED TO DEATH BY HIS JUDAS DISCIPLES

http://members.lycos.co.uk/prabhupa...sp_poisoned.htm



* MATERIALISTIC SCIENTISTS EXPOSED BY THE HARE KRISHNA SAINT

http://members.lycos.co.uk/spexpose/



* WHAT IS KRISHNA CONCIOUSNESS?

http://members.lycos.co.uk/prabhupa..._kc/what_kc.htm



* PRABHUPADA Your ever well wisher

http://members.lycos.co.uk/prabhupada1/

quote:

Originally posted by Moti Although we may have all the constituents of matter at our disposal, we cannot produce consciousness from them. All the material elements may be present in a dead man, but we cannot revive that man to consciousness. This body is not like a machine. When a part of a machine breaks down, it can be replaced, and the machine will work again, but when the body breaks down and consciousness leaves the body, there is no possibility of our replacing the broken part and rejuvenating the consciousness. The soul is different from the body, and as long as the soul is there, the body is animate. But there is no possibility of making the body animate in the absence of the soul.

You're really having a problem with basic biology and chemistry, aren't you? When a vital process stops (blood flow, etc) it does change the body chemistry, as the cells start falling apart. All the elements are still in there, but they have reorganized and this reorganization made the simple continuation of the process impossible. You can not inject new chemicals and hope they'll fix the problem. A body is not a big collection of chemicals, it is a highly organized system, just like a CPU doesn't equal to 20g of silicone and copper.

quote:

Because we cannot perceive the soul by our gross senses, we deny it. Actually there are so many things that are there which we cannot see. We cannot see air, radio waves, or sound, nor can we perceive minute bacteria with our blunt senses, but this does not mean they are not there. By the aid of the microscope and other instruments, many things can be perceived which had previously been denied by the imperfect senses.

And that's exactly what we've been telling you. If you can't see something, you can still sense its effects.

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Just because the soul, which is atomic in size, has not been perceived yet by senses or instruments, we should not conclude that it is not there. It can, however, be perceived by its symptoms and effects.

1) We should not conclude that it is there also

2) Which effects?

God damn it, and I thought Nellie was brainwashed. You, my friend, have reached an unprecedented level of stupidity on this forum! Congratulations!!!

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Originally posted by Moti Although we may have all the constituents of matter at our disposal, we cannot produce consciousness from them. All the material elements may be present in a dead man, but we cannot revive that man to consciousness.

My body "breaks down", I am clinically dead (complete absence of brainwave activity) I experience hypoxic hypoxia, my body enters a state of anaerobic metabolism (The creation of energy through the combustion of carbohydrates in the absence of oxygen. This occurs when the lungs cannot put enough oxygen into the bloodstream to keep up with the demands from the muscles energy.) My body is producing two ATP's (A(denosine) T(ri)P(hosphate) instead of the normal 36, which my body is using to save my vital organs. After a few minutes brain cells start to die, if after 5-6 minutes I am revived, i will be irreparably brain damaged (unless those fundies back of stem cell research FFS) every minute that passes i'll become more and more retarded, until I reach a state where there are so little living brain cells left that I unable to be revived

I think there was a case where a Baby was revived 9 minutes after being pronounced clinically dead, and survived with no brain damage?

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Moti This body is not like a machine. When a part of a machine breaks down, it can be replaced, and the machine will work again, but when the body breaks down and consciousness leaves the body, there is no possibility of our replacing the broken part and rejuvenating the consciousness. The soul is different from the body, and as long as the soul is there, the body is animate. But there is no possibility of making the body animate in the absence of the soul.

quote:

Gurdjieff Man is a machine. All that he does, all his actions, his words, thoughts, feelings, convictions, opinions, habits are the result of exterior influences

I wonder if this Hairy Krishna has read one of the funniest and greatest satirical works of last century?

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Robert Heinlein: Friday The Scientologists, of course, have had to fight for their rights many times; they fought with discipline, defended themselves, and disengaged rapidly--got out, taking their wounded with them. The Hairy Krishners fought like squawking chickens and left their wounded behind. But the Angels of the Lord fought as if they were crazy--and I think they are. They moved straight in, swinging clubs and fists, and didn't stop until they were down and uanble to get up. It took about as many Mounties to subdue them as there were Agnels . . . when the usual ratio is one Mounty, one riot. It appears that the Angels knew that the Hubbardites were arriving at that time and had come there to jump them; the Hare Krishna crowd showed up by accident--they were at the port simply because it is a good place to shake down cubes for money. But, having found the Hairies and being unable to pin down the Scientologists, the Angels settled for beating up the Krishna freaks.

omg i wrote a post longer than two lines

Now i know why i hate religion and its dogmatic followers.

what a little Rascal Moti is

Not sure how long it took to read all of this thread but its been 3 mugs of coffee and 5 smokes.

But i think it's 'stale mate' as this moti has been so indoctrinated that no matter what is said here, he will have difficulty listening to alternatives even when presented by the highly competent members of this forum like occ, renegade, MisterOpus1 etc so i am closing this thread.
If those mentioned above would like this thread to continue then please PM me.

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