quote:

Originally posted by occrider Sigh ... well I think Izzy said it best when he stated that the opinion of an unnamed british commander who supposedly speaks for the british command as a whole, is NOT the best of sources particularly when he brings in references to Nazism . Since we know nothing of this commander, his rank, or his credibility or authority to make such a judgment call it's an unsubstantiated report. 1 Max Hastings, Overlord: D-Day and the Battle for Normandy, p. 317.

Let me refresh ur memory.........BBC........Tony BLIAR.........sexed up weapons report.........source revealed..........source of information(a brittish scientist part of the Inspections team) ends up dead.

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Sig is 3.5 times, the limit, sort it out - torontotrance

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Originally posted by Dervish Well one source I'll impicitly trust one which I'd take with a pinch of salt(who was in iraq before). He said the American way of doing things was fundentally differnt to the British and he said they have a tendancy to overreact to anything they reguard as a threat. Further he said they also have the tendancy to reguard basicly any iraqi as a threat. They don't view them as anything but threats. And they don't view the war/occupation as real in a way, they see it as a game well atleast act that way. Actually I have seen from other sources a video which I think shows this best. I want you to watch it then think about your reaction and post it here. Link

eh- sorry- I cant watch movies at work.
How can the troops view all iraqis as anything but threats
until proved otherwise? They have shown they will send woman and children to their deaths.

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I've never felt alone... 'Till I met you

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Originally posted by George Smiley Bloody hell! What do you think this is?! A fucking academic paper we're all taking part in?! Do you want us to reference all our posts using the Harvard Referencing system or summat?! Fallacy fallacy fucking fallacy!!!!!!!! This is an internet chat site! We express on it opinions! We are but mere mortals who aren't experts on anything! Everything everyone says on here is a fucking fallacy you muppet if it is our opinions! Why the hell should we only have an opinion that can be backed up by the same opinion as an "expert"?! Would it really hurt you so much to come up with your own thoughts every now and again instead of loitering round threads waiting for the perfect opertunity to proundly proclaim that stupid fucking website you post up in every thread you take part in and announce: "This, people, is a fallacy!" Get a life mate!

You dont only need a harvard referencing system........you also need a dictionary so you can argue about definitions before you can even begin to discuss the actual topic.

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Sig is 3.5 times, the limit, sort it out - torontotrance

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Originally posted by DigiNut It shall be so - I'll even do it in ebonics for you: "Nigga say wha? Don't be talkin' no trash from those homies who ain't knowin' their shit, dawg. Y'all think you got sumpin' on me, then show me yo proof biatch." Better?

Ugh- now I need a dictionary! LOL

as you were sir!

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I've never felt alone... 'Till I met you

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Originally posted by xKaoSx OK- So maybe i read a bit into what my friends said. Their exact words were "They are hesitant and indecisive." now- I dont know about you but if im fighting side by side with someone- I dont think i want those traits with my companions I am fighting with. What other conclusion can you draw?

If I were a Iraqi, and by the way these are the people which matter most. I'd prefer people who were hesitant in the use of force, and also if I were in the army. Your in a city not a war zone. And as for Britsh troops being indecisive or inapporpriatly hesitant ( bit of genralisation kinda, though I can't talk ) I don't belive so, in places like Bosina were troops were patroling I rember a incident where a car load 5 or so people (all armed and shooting) attacked a british solider he killed all 5. Now thats the defintion of descive! Just an example but I cout very much if presented with a real rather than percived threat British troops are any less likely to attack.

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If you can read this, I'm seriously fucking bored.

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Originally posted by Dervish But honestly answer this question do you belive an american soliders life is more valuable than an iraqis?

Depends on the Iraqi.

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I've never felt alone... 'Till I met you

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Originally posted by Dervish But honestly answer this question do you belive an american soliders life is more valuable than an iraqis?

All human life is equally valuable. Unfortunately the terrorists don't have the same respect for human life.

The American military SHOULD view every Iraqi as a possible threat, because you can never know which is a friend and which is a foe. This is a lesson the American millitary learned in Vietnam.

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Originally posted by Dervish Yes he has prefaced it with "my view". And yes I was wrong to say it is a fact. But would you dispute that the average american solider like many (american) posters on here belives that " They view them as untermenschen. " Or it is somehow a good thing to do in an occupation. I'd actually agree in a war situation (edit: i.e. you have to few threats as targets). But not in a occupation you can't do that and not civlians as some people on here suggested. I belive the problem lies in tha the American troops are trainned for war and this is not war, it's occupation. I mean I understand (as much as one who hasn't been in the situation could) that it is a hugely stressfull situation.

Well I'm not going to attempt to predict what the average american soldier thinks, and I'm most certainly not going to try to predict what they think on the basis of what the average american here thinks. Either which way it's a faulty generalization ... I will concede that many soldiers may be overly jumpy since they're getting attacked 20+ times a day or so ... but to go from that to saying that they few Iraqis as "untermensch" is something of a stretch.

quote:

But honestly answer this question do you belive an american soliders life is more valuable than an iraqis?

No, I think an american soldiers life is as valuable as an Iraqis. If I had to make a choice of life and death for one of them I suppose it would depend on a number of factors. Is the Iraqi a woman? A child? etc. If I had to make a choice all things equal, I would probably choose to save the american ... but really who wouldn't have a bias for their own countrymen?

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Retro ...

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Originally posted by xKaoSx eh- sorry- I cant watch movies at work. How can the troops view all iraqis as anything but threats until proved otherwise? They have shown they will send woman and children to their deaths.

Ohh my god. There ladies and gents is the problem. Thats it exactly. What about "not guilty until proven guilty" just becuase they are Iraqis they arn't so important? Is that it? Or becuase it's a high risk enviorment? Well they are troops (high risk is what they are for), the Iraqis for the most part are civlians who didn't sign upto anything they are just trying to live their lifes.

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If you can read this, I'm seriously fucking bored.

Link to article

The article above relates to some inside information on what is going on in falluja.

a Couple of paragraphs here:

"He hadn't slept much, along with all of the doctors at the small clinic. It started with just three doctors, but since the Americans bombed one of the hospitals, and were currently sniping people as they attempted to enter/exit the main hospital, effectively there were only 2 small clinics treating all of Falluja. The other has been set up in a car garage.

As I was there, an endless stream of women and children who'd been sniped by the Americans were being raced into the dirty clinic, the cars speeding over the curb out front as their wailing family members carried them in.

One woman and small child had been shot through the neck -- the woman was making breathy gurgling noises as the doctors frantically worked on her amongst her muffled moaning.

The small child, his eyes glazed and staring into space, continually vomited as the doctors raced to save his life.

After 30 minutes, it appeared as though neither of them would survive.

One victim of American aggression after another was brought into the clinic, nearly all of them women and children."

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Sig is 3.5 times, the limit, sort it out - torontotrance

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Originally posted by Dervish If I were a Iraqi, and by the way these are the people which matter most. I'd prefer people who were hesitant in the use of force, and also if I were in the army. Your in a city not a war zone. And as for Britsh troops being indecisive or inapporpriatly hesitant ( bit of genralisation kinda, though I can't talk )

You dont think that city is considered a war zone right now?
Maybe not officially but im pretty sure the US troops
are feeling threatened everyday. How much hesitation would be enough? How many british or US soldiers must die before the hesitation level goes down and reaction goes up?

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I've never felt alone... 'Till I met you

quote:

Originally posted by occrider If I had to make a choice all things equal, I would probably choose to save the american ... but really who wouldn't have a bias for their own countrymen?

If I had to choose between my friend who is there and an Iraqi say of the same age. I'd choose my friend to die I mean (obviously if I had enough time to think about it and so on). You can question this if you like. But the fact is he's a solider the Iraqi is not. he knows what he is trainned for. And every member of the British forces SAS to the cooks knows what thier job is.

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If you can read this, I'm seriously fucking bored.