quote:

Originally posted by dEsidEL i agree with the red tape.. the stupid environmental assessment for the York University line was slated to take years and pre-planning won't even start till sometime in 2006.. rediculous

bah

screw the environment lol

build the subway!!!!

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"The best car-related innovation we have is not to improve the car, but eliminate the need to drive it everywhere we go.” -Alex Steffen

What ever happened to politicians like Bill Davis (1971 - 1985, a Tory), instrumental in altering transportation plans throughout Ontario by redirecting major financial support to expansion of public transit from expressways in a bid to influence citizens to abandon use of their cars in favour of public transportation vehicles. It was his vision that there would no longer be a need for road expansion.

He also championed the Fair Share Deal. This legislation saw the province provide up to 75% of capital costs for the TTC, which included vehicle replacement and infrastructure maintenance or upgrades. In addition, Toronto and Queen's Park split the operating subsidy of one third of operating costs, with ridership accounting two thirds through fares.


The TTC hasn't seen ridership increases since Bill Davis

Or what about people who got things done while they were in office, such as former Prime Minister Arthur Meighen (1920 - 1921, 1926, also a Conservative), who united the government-owned and floundering privately-owned railways to form the Canadian National Railway in the midst of the railroad boom at the turn of the century...


Canadian National Railway track, circa 1937

We need people like this in power again...

Last edited by amb_ on Jan-15-2005 at 04:41

Building a subway line is extremly expensive, no wonder the grid isn't well developped in major canadian cities.

In Montreal, they're building a new 5.2KM, 3 station extention which will cost in excess of 800 million $$! which is around 154.5 M$ per KM! Its taking around 5 years to build that!!!



The new extention is in orange in the top of the map!

quote:

Originally posted by dEsidEL update: source: http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...ol=968793972154 doesn't look like there's gonna be any new subways any time soon.. i just can't believe that it costs $1.5 billion dollars to build a subway line to York University ?? wtf ?! kinda makes you wonder how other major cities were able to afford just an extensive subway system ..

I think one of the problems is that, in europe especially, other cities have a more dense population. So a new expensive subway line would reach far more people for the same distance. Its not the only problem but it might be an explanation.

quote:

Originally posted by malek In Montreal, they're building a new 5.2KM, 3 station extention which will cost in excess of 800 million $$! which is around 154.5 M$ per KM! Its taking around 5 years to build that!!!

That's a pretty good deal, compared to former Toronto Mayor Mel Lastman's "Subway to Nowhere" Sheppard Line. Ringing in at nearly 1 billion dollars (not including the new subway vehicles necessary to put this line into service), and covering just under 6.4km.

Add to this that it took us over 8 years to put this line into operation (we didn't have to deal with Riviere Des Prairies being in the way), and it makes Montréal's expansion look very attractive.

Last edited by amb_ on Jan-15-2005 at 05:55

Rule of thumb: you only build a subway when there's something above ground that's worth saving.


Suburban TO has NOTHING above ground worth saving! Subways are therefore a total waste of money.


What we need are above-ground trains and trams.


Has anyone here been to Berlin? I have, and I can tell you that they have the best transportation system I've ever seen.


http://www.bvg.de/e_index.html


Check out their train map, which includes mixed above- and underground trains. They also have trams for more suburban areas.


pwned!!!

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Nathan Fake - Outhouse (Valentino Kanzyani Remix) || ID PLZ! PVD ID!!!
Disco and classical had sex while watching a sci-fi movie. Their child: trance.

I was in Berlin this past summer with a few TAs. *sigh* if only we had something like the S-Bahn or U-Bahn......http://www.bvg.de/images/sunetz_aktuell.pdf
OWNAGE. Plus drinking a German Pilsner while on it brings back fond memories...

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Last edited by Endlesswave on Jan-15-2005 at 05:53

quote:

Originally posted by discojoe I think one of the problems is that, in europe especially, other cities have a more dense population. So a new expensive subway line would reach far more people for the same distance. Its not the only problem but it might be an explanation.

You're forgetting that Toronto has an area with one of the highest population densities in the world. The population of St. James Town is the same as the town of Lindsay, Ontario and the same as the entire territory of Nunavut (approximately 25,000 people).

In the broader scope, the Golden Horseshoe's part in the nation's economic prosperity cannot be ignored. We can only hope that this issue doesn't fall by the wayside of political complacency.

quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf Has anyone here been to Berlin? I have, and I can tell you that they have the best transportation system I've ever seen. http://www.bvg.de/e_index.html Check out their train map, which includes mixed above- and underground trains. They also have trams for more suburban areas.

Interestingly enough, the sweeping majority of Germany's above-ground public transit uses Bombardier Transporatation technology.

Why can't we use our own technologies to solve crises here at home?

Last edited by amb_ on Jan-15-2005 at 05:57

Berlin:

Structural data:


(As of 31 Dec. 2003)




Area of Berlin:


892 km2

Inhabitants:


3.39 million



Underground system




No. of lines: (day / night)


9 - 7

Total line length in km (day / night)


144.2 - 120.3

Total route length in km (day / night)


151.7 - 120.3

Stations (day / night)


170 - 145

Platforms (day / night)


389 - 330

Average distance between stations (km)


0.79

Average speed


30.9

Wide gauge (km/h)


32.7

Narrow gauge (km/h)


27.2



Tram system




No. of lines (day / night)


27 - 5

Total line length in km (day / night)


187.7 - 57.2

Total route length in km (day / night)


362.6 - 59.7

Tram stops (day / night)


377 - 110

Unidirectional tram stops (day / night)


789 - 224

Average distance between stops (km)


0.461

Average tram speed (km/h)


19.4



Bus system




No. of lines (day / night)


161 - 54

Total line length in km (day / night)


1.271 - 568

Total route length in km (day / night)


1.905 - 754

Bus stops (day / night)


2.730 - 1.522

Unidirectional bus stops (day / night)


6.822 - 3.188

Average distance between stops (km)


0.52

Average bus speed (km/h)


19.56

ExpressBus


22.71

Bus lanes (km), unidirectional


101.923



Underground vehicles




Total vehicles


1.361

wide gauge


840

narrow gauge


521



Tram vehicles




Total vehicles


602

Tatra drive carriages


388

trailer carriages


64

low platform articulated trams
one-directional vehicels


105

low platform articulated trams
bi-directional vehicles


45



Bus vehicles




Total vehicles


1.426

double-deckers


394

single-deckers


512

articulated busses


409

special services and bus pool


111



Personnel




Total


12.878

staff members


9.234

apprentices


422



Infrastructure facilities




Escalators, underground


366

Lifts, underground (total)


71

Underground stations with lifts


46

Ramps in underground stations


10

Sales machines / ticket printers


3.649

Ticket cancelling machines


6.309

Emergency and information columns


521



Operating resources




Operating maintenance facilities, total


16

underground workshops


3

tram workshops


6

bus workshops


7



Depots


12

tram depots


5

bus depots


7

Main underground workshops


2

Operating maintenance facilities (underground)
central workshops bus


1

1

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Nathan Fake - Outhouse (Valentino Kanzyani Remix) || ID PLZ! PVD ID!!!
Disco and classical had sex while watching a sci-fi movie. Their child: trance.

Keep in mind that Germany has 2.5X the population of Canada, and is far richer than Canada.


I think Canadians forget how poor we've become relative to other OECD economies.

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Nathan Fake - Outhouse (Valentino Kanzyani Remix) || ID PLZ! PVD ID!!!
Disco and classical had sex while watching a sci-fi movie. Their child: trance.