quote:

Originally posted by 00soups00 jesus christ, everything is taken so seriously around here. ill delete that post incase some of the asian community fear my wrath

im asian. i wasnt offended. but im glad you deleted it. its a serious thread mate, what you expect?

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lower the curtain down on memphis
lower the curtain down on me...

quote:

Originally posted by AnitA There are WORSE CRIMES and CRIMINALS out there and these ****S worry about 4kg of weed?? What a load of bullshit!

haha love it! go the c-word

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new set online, Summer Journeys

quote:

Originally posted by AnitA ****S

ARGHHH *blocks ears* ....

quote:

Originally posted by jizza im asian. i wasnt offended. but im glad you deleted it. its a serious thread mate, what you expect?

It's okay Jiz we will just have to elope and go hide in the desert until this whole thing blows over.

Poor Schapelle

In something like 12 years they have never found someone not guilty. I think that says something about their justice system.

20 years bah you'd get less for murder!

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i think we should remember that the legal system is a bit corrupt over there, like you cant tell me that the judge dude sentenced 500 people to guilty or the death penalty. COME ON!!! ITS BS.
NO one has ever got off?
also over there you got to prove your innocence other wise proved guilty.
here in australia you are innocent until proven guilty.

mate unbeleivable...

Paulie you should be dissapointed in yourself MATE!

anf seems to hold the only intelligent stance here... the rest of you are media-induced sheep. Like I said, if she wasn't half decent, none of you guys would care..

Why doesn't anyone give 2 fuks about that girl (who looks like a bloke) in the bali 9??? the one supposedly saying she did it because of threats to her family.. if she looked like Kimberly Joseph I'm sure you'll join that bandwagon

Watch the news reports, how biased it is... how it tries and invokes sympathy from the viewer... People who can't think for themselves will fall victim, which is pretty much the entire aussie population

I'm sure you're all saying 'why would anyone want to bring weed into a place that has loads of it and is readily available... On the contrary in places like Bali and Indo, tourists seeking the green seldomly buy from locals due to most of them being undercover cops or snitches...They rather buy it from anotehr westerner, hence its price value quadruples... A kilo up there can sell for 10 times more than it does here purly for that reason alone...

I feel for her, just like I feel for any criminal given a harsh sentence. But I don't feel for her because the Aust media says I should.. Suttle difference

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While there's no doubt that 20 years in prison for possessing marijuana in unjustifiably harsh, I think a lot of people are missing the point here.

First of all there seems to be some underlying presumption that the Indonesian legal system is corrupt or unjust and that she was only found guilty because those nasty Indonesians were conspiring to ensure that she was found guilty, regardless of the facts of the case. The question is, why would they do that? The prima facie fact is that she was caught breaking Indonesian law - she was found, at the airport, to be in possession of 4.1kgs of marijaua. What evidence is there of extenuating circumstances that may excuse her? What solid evidence, exactly, can the defence point to that would demonstrate that she was blameless for carrying this amount of marijauna? Fact is, due legal process found her guilty and I still haven't seen any evidence that due legal process wasn't followed - aside from the harshness of the penalty, what exactly can be said to be wrong with the verdict?

While the Indonesian law is, as I said, harsh, don't make the mistake of presuming the the legal system there is inadequate. It's closely modelled on Dutch and Portuguese legal systems and - contrary to popular belief - the "presumption of innocence" is contitutionally enshrined there. While there's no doubt that corruption has been a problem there, there is absolutely no evidence of corruption in this case. Now, to see the reaction of her family (openly abusing and threatening the judges after the verdict was read), then watching them spill out onto the streets screaming, claiming with certainty - despite all the facts - that she was self-evidently innocent (and that, therefore, the Indonesian legal system got it wrong), then to watch as people made threats against the Indonesian embassy, struggling vainly to hide the implicit disdain for the sovereignty of the Indonesian state that rests at the heart of much of this matter, I - to be honest - felt ashamed. Could you imagine if an Indonesian family came to our courts with the same disdain for our legal system, values and culture more generally? I would feel offended and given the ridiculous over-reaction to the verdict, I think the people of Indonesia have a right to feel offended as well.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN and erratik- seriously dude- get fvcked. regardless of innocence or guilt, 20 years for a bit of pot just isnt right. i have sympathy for almost anyone stuck in jail over there as well. yeah, ppl die everyday, and i have compassion for most of them too. time to intervene you think renegade?

Like I said, the law is harsh. 20 years (or worse, life imprisonment or death) for possessing marijuana is fucking bullshit, and I've maintained that all along. If she had been given the death penalty (or even life imprisonment) then - at that level of severity - the issue ceases to become a legal issue and becomes a human-rights issue and yes, in this case, we most definitely should have intervened, as far as possible, to ensure that these sentence was reduced. However, given that I don't believe the verdict handed down today to be severe enough to constitute a human-rights issue, we must repsect the Indonesian's right to punish our citizens that have committed crimes over there, just as they must respect our right to punish Indonesian citizens that commit crimes over here.

Besides, not to go on a moralizing tilt here, but the hypocracy in this case is pretty astounding. Many of the people spilling out onto the streets lambasting the Indonesian people for the verdict passed down also voted back into power the government here that imprisons asylum-seeking foreign nationals that haven't committed a crime, without a trial, in conditions every bit as inhumane as Balinese prisons, in direct contravention of international law. So I ask you, which legal system here is really the unjust one? Do we really have the right to be casting stones here? Why isn't just a small fraction of the outrage directed against the Indonesians directed against the government that imprisons small children?

Anyway, food for thought.

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Originally posted by Xavier I'd just love it if a nice Tsunami hits em again. Lets have our fingers cross for it. This is fucking war.

You're a fucking idiot.

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maybe if we started a thread about how some child in Africa died of starvation, then those coerced by the media might see beyond the hype

(If that was bad grammar, I apologise (was never good at expressing myself)) <-- that was probably shit grammar too

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huh?

quote:

Originally posted by Renegade Logic.

Respect, totally on the mark.

Renegade - I wholeheartedly agree with you.

I'm glad there are a few people here with some sense...

quote:

Originally posted by Renegade What evidence is there of extenuating circumstances that may excuse her?

exactly. same as saddam couldnt prove to the west that he didnt have any WMDs. if you *are* stuck in that position, it has to become whether you are believable & credible before your "peers". i dont think that 3 members of the judiciary should be deciding that decision. as far as im concerned its like getting the police to make the same judgements.

quote:

Originally posted by Renegade I - to be honest - felt ashamed. Could you imagine if an Indonesian family came to our courts with the same disdain for our legal system, values and culture more generally? I would feel offended and given the ridiculous over-reaction to the verdict, I think the people of Indonesia have a right to feel offended as well.

i dont hold australians in very high esteem so i was not at all surprised.

quote:

Originally posted by Renegade However, given that I don't believe the verdict handed down today to be severe enough to constitute a human-rights issue...we must repsect the Indonesian's right to punish our citizens that have committed crimes over there, just as they must respect our right to punish Indonesian citizens that commit crimes over here.

absolutely, however as it is a govt's responsibility to protect its citizens, the federal govt should be doing all they can to prevent her from ending up in an indonesian gaol. i argue that their prison systems *are* a violation of human rights, as is the sentence as far as im concerned. 20 years may as well be life if youre in an oz gaol- let alone an indonesian one. if the punishment does not fit the crime our govt should be doing all they can. and i have the same opinion about the 9.

the fact of the matter is that shooting or incarcerating mules (willing or not) will never achieve anything to deter the drug trade. people in every country are always poor enough to resort to something they'd rather not do. the people that are benefitting from the trade are laughing whilst their workers are suffering, and more energy and committment should be put into big fish.

quote:

Originally posted by Renegade Why isn't just a small fraction of the outrage directed against the Indonesians directed against the government that imprisons small children?

um, because australians dont care and australians are racist and ethnocentric.

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