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Originally posted by Arsondude2.0 A white men is what i am...so i cant be racist... Arsondude

white man cannot be racist?

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Originally posted by infinity HiGH white man cannot be racist?

no i think he's confused. Usually people think the other way around.

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Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 I find it funny how it's ok to say such things about men but when the same or even less is said about a woman it's a sexist statement. Name calling is as old as politics itself. People's character and looks are routinely made fun of in politics and in editorials. But now suddenly because this same standard is a applied to a woman it's sexist? The example above is just one illustration of this kind of hypocrisy. Women wanted equality.... well comments like this just proved that they got it because treating women different from men by NOT calling them names would be sexist would it not?

That is a *ridiculous* position, IMHO...you really have trouble with "equality" as a concept

both men and women being subjected to similar name calling might APPEAR as equal, but that is such an ignorant, simplistic analysis, I would say...the specific event (the name calling) is equal, but that COMPLETELY ignores the context, history, etc. of men and women, for example.

if women were previously "marginalized" and have now gained equality, yet men faced no such previous marginalization, then isn't it possible that something as simple as name calling could be far from "equal"?

Calling a woman a prostitute and a whore could be seen as an attempt to strip away or set aside that "equality" and reduce them to, or at least reference, their previous marginalized status.

e.g. a black man is accepted into a mainly white whatever... a workplace, let's say. technically that's "equality", as you see it...but the only thing that is "equal" is that he has that position...is the context "equal"? no. it wouldn't be hard for a co-worker to give him a bit of a slap down with a racial remark...i.e. that equality is still tempered by the previous status quo.

the same could be said for women. calling Stronach a prostitute and whore...one could argue that's an attempt, however passive/unconscious, to strip away all of her personal and professional accomplishments and reduce her to some marginalized status previously seen for women...when men make such bold business moves, however unethical one might see them, they are still ultimately seen as been "ambitious" or "driven"...but a woman can be called a whore.

the country, and much of the wealth in it, is still essentially controlled by older, wealthy, white, straight men...men who, underneath it all, naturally want it to remain that way. I think that is ultimately arsondude's point.

in any case, even accepting what I've said, it doesn't mean that a "crutch" can exist forever...but it's very short-sighted, IMHO, to examine something without considering the history and context of that perceived "equality".

Actually the person who was calling her a prostitute was cleverly referring to this famous qoute:

"Every government is a parliament of whores. The trouble is, in a democracy, the whores are us."

Note that PJ O'Rourke was referring to mostly men in this commentary.

As for my definition of equality:



Main Entry: equal·i·ty
Pronunciation: i-'kwä-l&-tE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
1 : the quality or state of being equal

Main Entry: 1equal
Pronunciation: 'E-kw&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin aequalis, from aequus level,


equal
1 a (1) : of the same measure, quantity, amount, or number as another (2) : identical in mathematical value or logical denotation : EQUIVALENT b : like in quality, nature, or status c : like for each member of a group, class, or society
2 : regarding or affecting all objects in the same way : IMPARTIAL
3 : free from extremes: as a : tranquil in mind or mood b : not showing variation in appearance, structure, or proportion
4 a : capable of meeting the requirements of a situation or a task b : SUITABLE
synonym see SAME


Note that the definition does not include "the same but with different characteristics" which is what you describe. It seems that the word equal has been lost on you. Equal means that everyone and everything is the same. Otherwise it is unequal. I do not subscribe to the idea that some sets of rules are ok for some people and not for others. That goes against the very pricipal that past disadvantaged groups were fighting for.

Dont tell me that just because someone is made fun of as a woman that it is sexist. How do you explain Arsondude's commentary? I found that to be much more sexist and hateful than calling a politician a prostitute who goes to the highest negotiated price. (which is exactly what she did). Also what is so sexist about being called a dipstick? Would it have been better if she had been called an asshole or an idiot? I thought she got off quite easy with dipstick myself because i for one called her a lot worse. I guess when people call Joe Clark an old fogey or dinosaur it's ok but we dare not make fun of the youthful appearance and blondeness of Belinda's dare we be called a chauvenist right?

Give me a break....

Anyone who justifies inequality in the name of equality clearly has something to gain by tilting the imbalances the other way.

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Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

the same could be said for women. calling Stronach a prostitute and whore...one could argue that's an attempt, however passive/unconscious, to strip away all of her personal and professional accomplishments and reduce her to some marginalized status previously seen for women...when men make such bold business moves, however unethical one might see them, they are still ultimately seen as been "ambitious" or "driven"...but a woman can be called a whore

to address this specifically. I have seen many times in daily life both personal and in politics when men have screwed people over and have been called backstabbers, assholes, dicks, unscroupulous.

You are right that the remarks are an attempt to strip away all of her personal and professional accomplishments and reduce her to some marginalized status, but as politician, not as a woman.

I find it interesting to note that no one has mentioned how Liberal Anne Mclellan described Belinda as "having balls" to do what she did. So i guess it's ok to use so called "sexist" terminology but only when it's advantageous to women? Is this the equality you refer to?

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Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

jay, you can quote dictionary definitions all you want...it is YOU who does not understand the concept. All you've done is lent support what I'm saying and shown that the equality you claim exists, in fact does not.

If "equal" means the same in ALL regards...and if the context, history, etc. between people is different (e.g. men and women)...then despite the appearance of equality now (i.e. at one moment in time), can "true" equality ever exist?

"surface" equality is different that true equality.

The Conservatives would implement same-sex unions, for example..."same, but different"...which does not mean equal...so if you support *equality* under the law, then you should be in support of gay marriage, not same sex unions

i DO support same sex marriage. Its funny how you think i dont. And now you have caught on to a huge dilemma that society faces. If we can never be truely equal than why does everyone clamour for it? Why are we told equal is good yet then told by the same people that we can never be equal.

So why cant i say that sometimes white guys as a group are always going to have more advantages than other groups just as other groups will always have certain advantages over white guys? You see my point? I agree with you that we are all different and people will always have different attributes but it is in the way they are treated that should be equal. Everyone should have the same level of opportunity, the same level of respect but on the flipside they should also be subject to the same level of critism and cynism as well.

Belinda being called what she was called is only different in the fact that the insults were tailored to her just as they would have been tailored to anyone else regardless of sex.

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Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 I find it funny how it's ok to say such things about men but when the same or even less is said about a woman it's a sexist statement. Name calling is as old as politics itself. People's character and looks are routinely made fun of in politics and in editorials. But now suddenly because this same standard is a applied to a woman it's sexist? The example above is just one illustration of this kind of hypocrisy. Women wanted equality.... well comments like this just proved that they got it because treating women different from men by NOT calling them names would be sexist would it not?

You claim hypocrisy...well maybe. But you cant call a women a whore on national television it just isnt classy...As for the 'racist sexist' comments about men i was just making a point. I was merely stating that women have been considered property owned by men not so long ago and men never have been. If you were a women you might understand some things but you aren’t so ill let it go..lol You obviously see no inequalities between the majority and the minority and that’s fine you’re not supposed to. If I was the majority I would feel that the world is perfectly just as well. But since Im not as fortunate as you *cough cough* I don’t feel the world is just and its full of doubled handed down standards. But that’s because im not like you. So no one is right here. But I think the conservatives telling the media that Belinda is a whore or a prostitute is ludicrous and appalling. Notice Belinda hasn’t slandered back to the opposition because shes a smarter than you think.

But yes I agree that many names are called in the house, and peoples appearances are made fun of. But Belinda’s appearance wasn’t made fun of, it was her character. It just seems to me that most of the male parliament are not very mature…but I never expected a bunch of over paid men would be.


Arsondude

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Originally posted by infinity HiGH white man cannot be racist?

No i mean im white so i cant hate white people...im not racist against white people.


Arsondude

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Actually the person who was calling her a prostitute was cleverly referring to this famous qoute: "Every government is a parliament of whores. The trouble is, in a democracy, the whores are us." Note that PJ O'Rourke was referring to mostly men in this commentary. As for my definition of equality: Main Entry: equal·i·ty Pronunciation: i-'kwä-l&-tE Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural -ties 1 : the quality or state of being equal Main Entry: 1equal Pronunciation: 'E-kw&l Function: adjective Etymology: Middle English, from Latin aequalis, from aequus level, equal 1 a (1) : of the same measure, quantity, amount, or number as another (2) : identical in mathematical value or logical denotation : EQUIVALENT b : like in quality, nature, or status c : like for each member of a group, class, or society 2 : regarding or affecting all objects in the same way : IMPARTIAL 3 : free from extremes: as a : tranquil in mind or mood b : not showing variation in appearance, structure, or proportion 4 a : capable of meeting the requirements of a situation or a task b : SUITABLE synonym see SAME Note that the definition does not include "the same but with different characteristics" which is what you describe. It seems that the word equal has been lost on you. Equal means that everyone and everything is the same. Otherwise it is unequal. I do not subscribe to the idea that some sets of rules are ok for some people and not for others. That goes against the very pricipal that past disadvantaged groups were fighting for. Dont tell me that just because someone is made fun of as a woman that it is sexist. How do you explain Arsondude's commentary? I found that to be much more sexist and hateful than calling a politician a prostitute who goes to the highest negotiated price. (which is exactly what she did). Also what is so sexist about being called a dipstick? Would it have been better if she had been called an asshole or an idiot? I thought she got off quite easy with dipstick myself because i for one called her a lot worse. I guess when people call Joe Clark an old fogey or dinosaur it's ok but we dare not make fun of the youthful appearance and blondeness of Belinda's dare we be called a chauvenist right? Give me a break.... Anyone who justifies inequality in the name of equality clearly has something to gain by tilting the imbalances the other way.

And how do you slander/make fun of a man...you can him a woman...or a whore in this case. You reduce him to what history has led us to believe is the worst than being a man, is being a woman (which obviously isnt true). I just also want to make a point that men are the powerful majority...they control mostly everything, economically, politically and internationally. Men have never been repressed by the modern world and women have. Thats all im gonna say.

Arsondude

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Originally posted by Jayx1 Actually the person who was calling her a prostitute was cleverly referring to this famous qoute: "Every government is a parliament of whores. The trouble is, in a democracy, the whores are us."

Please to be citing your source that confirms that this was the inspiration behind describing Miss Stronach as a whore. I certainly do not recall the statement being qualified in this manner. I think that you have made a connection that may not actually exist.

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down