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Originally posted by DJ_Sudden Anyhow, just a side note, if big dj's(sasha,G&D) would not have supported laptops+ableton for their whole sets, it would not be considered as a replacement. by the way, I wonder how much they get paid for supporting?

^so cynical!

i disagree. they use it b/c they see the vast potential of such tools. if they didn't use it, other younger generation DJs would have (and will) master the tool and become incredible DJs in their own right.

and why should they be considered laptop performances? we don't call them "vinyl performances"

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Originally posted by DJ_Sudden by live I meant live mixing, and not live music. With a laptop you can see your mix before it's time to play it. You see the output before it is outputted. Would that be considered live mixing? I guess I misunderstood the thread's topic: Is Laptop DJing really djing? From a dj stand point: No, it is a laptop peformance From someone-in-the-club's point of view: Yes, and it's much better, creative, and unique. I though DJing was one part Beat Matching/Mixing/keeping beats in time, one part Track Selection, one part transition and EQs Turns out its One part Track Selection I guess a dj is someone who creates a journey-like atmosphere by playing music by any means. Anyhow, just a side note, if big dj's(sasha,G&D) would not have supported laptops+ableton for their whole sets, it would not be considered as a replacement. by the way, I wonder how much they get paid for supporting?

Its subjective in the end. 20 years ago John Mellencamp and Marc Almond had a public spat about playing LIVE instruments vs sequenced music (as Almond, then a member of Soft Cell, was a propnent of). Mellencamp's argument was that he didn't think it took much skill to simply push a button and call it making music. 20 years later, it seems as though Mellencamp has lost the arguement, as we've come to learn that the confluence of creativity and technology has been a good thing for popular (as well as underground) music. It would seem absurd for someone to imply that there is less skill in making music with computers than with LIVE instruments today, and yet that same mentality seems to permeate through the generations every time a new technology is introduced, that threatens to change the fundemental way that music is disseminated to an audience.

It happened with the music industry v Napster (and others), it happend with CD decks were introduced, when vinyl 'purists' casually dismissed CD mixing as not having the tactile flair that came with mixing records, and yet today mixing CDs has for the most part become a standard. We can apply the same standard to Ableton and other lap top based platforms. They will become the norm in the near future, at which time the old skool people who believe DJing is simply about beatmatching two circular objects together will either have to adapt or be left behind. Electronic music is inherently a technology based art form, and the artists who embrace new technology are the ones who will get ahead.

^ word. couldn't have said it better myself

I guess we can call it anything, however, I personally believe that oe who can beat match by ear is true DJ and one who completely relies on a laptop for a performance is not.

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Originally posted by DJ_Sudden I guess we can call it anything, however, I personally believe that oe who can beat match by ear is true DJ and one who completely relies on a laptop for a performance is not.

yeah, we got your point. your just wrong. DJing is moving on, jump on the train or be left behind(and you won't be the only one who gets left behind TRUST ME)

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Originally posted by Hypersky Its subjective in the end. 20 years ago John Mellencamp and Marc Almond had a public spat about playing LIVE instruments vs sequenced music (as Almond, then a member of Soft Cell, was a propnent of). Mellencamp's argument was that he didn't think it took much skill to simply push a button and call it making music. 20 years later, it seems as though Mellencamp has lost the arguement, as we've come to learn that the confluence of creativity and technology has been a good thing for popular (as well as underground) music. It would seem absurd for someone to imply that there is less skill in making music with computers than with LIVE instruments today, and yet that same mentality seems to permeate through the generations every time a new technology is introduced, that threatens to change the fundemental way that music is disseminated to an audience. It happened with the music industry v Napster (and others), it happend with CD decks were introduced, when vinyl 'purists' casually dismissed CD mixing as not having the tactile flair that came with mixing records, and yet today mixing CDs has for the most part become a standard. We can apply the same standard to Ableton and other lap top based platforms. They will become the norm in the near future, at which time the old skool people who believe DJing is simply about beatmatching two circular objects together will either have to adapt or be left behind. Electronic music is inherently a technology based art form, and the artists who embrace new technology are the ones who will get ahead.

I totally agree. I just think that as far as just mixing songs live goes, it's a different skill to beatmatch and mix, than to use a laptop to perfor the tast. When using ableton there are so many different things you can do, that it's more like a Performance, than just mixing songs(dj def i had in my head)... I did not say its not art, I was thinking very subjectively about the subject and was stuck with the idea of a dj being someone who switched from one track to another, creatively of course.

When I started to DJ I did not have any equipment and did everything on the computer(Virtual DJ), on which the computer did the beat matching... When I spoke to one of the DJs, he really emphasized the fact of being able to beatmatch by only your ears. He believed that if you want to be a true dj you need to master the skill... I practiced and finally got the concept and thought of it an a skill...But this was a year a ago...

I have an open mind and see that things are changing in the DJ world, infact i already got the Ableton 5 last week, and I'm gonna start practicing and master it soon.

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Originally posted by Zombie0729 yeah, we got your point. your just wrong. DJing is moving on, jump on the train or be left behind(and you won't be the only one who gets left behind TRUST ME)

I just expressed my opinion. I don't think there is anything WRONG with it.

And why would I get left behind?

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Originally posted by DJ_Sudden I just expressed my opinion. I don't think there is anything WRONG with it. And why would I get left behind?

because as much as DJing is an artistic form of expression. It's also a business.

You, as a DJ, have competition... infact a lot of it. Don't you realize there is very little that seperates DJ's... and that every major act that has moved on to ableton has complained that there was no difference between what he was sounding like compared to some kid in his bedroom.



we're tired of sounding the same

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Originally posted by DJ_Sudden by live I meant live mixing, and not live music. With a laptop you can see your mix before it's time to play it. You see the output before it is outputted. Would that be considered live mixing?

I am still looking for that "preview your mix" function...

___________________

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Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

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Originally posted by Clovis86 I am still looking for that "preview your mix" function...

I read it in one of the interviews( sasha, or .. I dunno)

Anyhow, I looked in the manual, and searched for previewing, and it came up with a few things, however I don't exactly know, since I have not really messed around with it. But search the PDF manual and check resampling, something like being able to take a snap shot of part the Set and redirecting to a output channel (headphone). I will figure it out some time and will difinately let you know. Do you have 4 or 5?

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Originally posted by DJ_Sudden I read it in one of the interviews( sasha, or .. I dunno) Anyhow, I looked in the manual, and searched for previewing, and it came up with a few things, however I don't exactly know, since I have not really messed around with it. But search the PDF manual and check resampling, something like being able to take a snap shot of part the Set and redirecting to a output channel (headphone). I will figure it out some time and will difinately let you know. Do you have 4 or 5?

I have 4 and 5 Beta. And I have seen how Sasha uses Live...no clue what you're talking about. As far as I can tell he doesnt have any previewing capabilities beyond what you could do with headphones and turntables.

___________________

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Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.