quote:

Originally posted by paulandrews it can´t be properly. the one who tries to translate some poem has to use completely different words, completely different language trying to transform the whole feeling and meaning of it into a completely new product. and it can´t be officially interpreted as well, as there are prolly hundreds and thousands of interpretations of one poem in the whole world. for someone using a "moon" in poetry can mean speaking about death, someone else connects "moon" with night etc, it just depends on the culture, on everyone of us - again, it´s subjective, it´s art, it´s the same thing as with music. you see it finally?

there's a word for moon in hebrew, it can have those very same connotations. there's no purpose to change the feeling and meaning of a poem in translation, the purpose is to recreate it in a different language. when a word has more than one meaning, it is optimistically translated into a word that has the same respective meanings, the most similiar word available.

it can't be officially interpreted? how about by the author himself? he can't do it either, right?...

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People who own my ass: Citric Acid, Boomer187, Tribu, Sand Leaper,
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Psy-T - Down The Rabbit Hole (400minute long acid set)

quote:

Originally posted by RebeL9 you got this wrong. the reason trance is called trance is that it's meant to be hypnotic. It's essential.I'm not saying that every person may find the same tune hypnotic but it's an aspect of the tune which should be present.

again, what´s not hypnotic for you, may be hypnotic for anyone else, what´s not present for you, may be present for anyone else etc... wtf you even don´t know if the colour you call white does not look like "your" yellow for anyone else! just because people have agreed on some rules does not mean they can´t interpret them differently.

quote:

A huge amount of todays trance is mixed up with house, eurodance, pop etc so alot of the original elements have faded away. And then again they call it trance just because the word trance is cool and sells. I've seen this several times how labels name their CDs "Future Trance" etc and the content is Scooter, DJ Sammy etc. The kids on the schoolyard feel much cooler listening to "trance" than "dance". The word have been misused. And this got nothing to do with what A thinks is hypnotic contra what B thinks. Do you get it now?

now you´re talking not on topic. you even said that - this has nothing to do with what A thinks is hypnotic and so on.. cause if it was misused because of some marketing reasons, then the reason is pretty obvious and has nothing to do with the music itself. in this case, if the word "trance" is there to sell and nothing more then of course, it shouldn´t be connected with the music there. but that´s not what are we talking about here i believe.

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quote:

Originally posted by paulandrews again, what´s not hypnotic for you, may be hypnotic for anyone else, what´s not present for you, may be present for anyone else etc... wtf you even don´t know if the colour you call white does not look like "your" yellow for anyone else! just because people have agreed on some rules does not mean they can´t interpret them differently.

regardless of whether the colour i call green is actually blue, if you live in our society, you'll call that same 'blue' green. people who do not conform to that standard have mental difficulties beyond visual perception.

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People who own my ass: Citric Acid, Boomer187, Tribu, Sand Leaper,
Jackson, venomX, jamie, Renegade, Konjin, Akridrot, Miss Bliss.
Psy-T - Down The Rabbit Hole (400minute long acid set)

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T there's a word for moon in hebrew, it can have those very same connotations. there's no purpose to change the feeling and meaning of a poem in translation, the purpose is to recreate it in a different language. when a word has more than one meaning, it is optimistically translated into a word that has the same respective meanings, the most similiar word available. it can't be officially interpreted? how about by the author himself? he can't do it either, right?...

But it is NOT officially interpreted, even not by the author! Because that would completely destroy the meaning of poetry, it would lose all the mystery and the very substance of it! Even if the author´s interpretation was published, then it can´t be considered as the only one and as the "right one"! Due all the cultural aspects that I have mentioned, there are many interpretations of one poem and none of them is more true then some other one

___________________
"All revolutions are the sheerest fantasies until they happen; then they become historical inevitabilities."

quote:

Originally posted by paulandrews But it is NOT officially interpreted, even not by the author! Because that would completely destroy the meaning of poetry, it would lose all the mystery and the very substance of it! Even if the author´s interpretation was published, then it can´t be considered as the only one and as the "right one"! Due all the cultural aspects that I have mentioned, there are many interpretations of one poem and none of them is more true then some other one

you're claiming here that the author does not know what he meant in his poem.

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People who own my ass: Citric Acid, Boomer187, Tribu, Sand Leaper,
Jackson, venomX, jamie, Renegade, Konjin, Akridrot, Miss Bliss.
Psy-T - Down The Rabbit Hole (400minute long acid set)

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T regardless of whether the colour i call green is actually blue, if you live in our society, you'll call that same 'blue' green. people who do not conform to that standard have mental difficulties beyond visual perception.

of course we call blue "blue", but that´s just because someone told you "this is blue", regardless of how you really see that. you can´t know if the one who told you does not see "blue" in the way you see "yellow"!

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"All revolutions are the sheerest fantasies until they happen; then they become historical inevitabilities."

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur Oh my goodness. Clowntrance. So you cut out a dozen or so aimless, idiotic 1+ minute long breakdowns ripped out of bombastic circus anthems, zipped them together and posted them under the guise of "how trance is supposed to be". Fucking hilarious. This is akin to Avril Levigne calling her debut album "the way punk is supposed to be." These tracks represent everything that's WRONG with trance today. The trite anthems. The predictable, boring, overly-long breakdowns. The rip-off pads and leads replicated in every track.

Seriously? I'll go as far as giving you these that fit the profile you lay out:
Paul Oakenfold - Hypnotised
24 - The Longest Day (Armin Van Buuren Remix)
Cern - The Message
Blank & Jones - Watching The Waves

but these....?

Modulation - Spirits (Slusnik Luna Remix) [2003]
Peres & Petersky - Hello Ladies [2005]
ATB - Marrakech (Revolution Mix) [2004]
L.S.G. - Netherworld (Oliver Prime Remix) [2005]
4 Strings - Turn It Around (Sandler Mix) [2004]
Kosmas Epsilon - Innocent Thoughts [2005]

I honestly don't hear what's wrong with the second set of tracks. You seem to exaggerate your claim of trite, boring, and overly predictable music in this case.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur Something like this. Pure, unrelenting trance. No anthems. No breakdowns. No over-the-top, gratuitous melodies. No vocals. No pauses, breaks, or stopping whatsoever. No bullshit. Just trance.

Zzzz...
I anticipated a lot more substance prior to listening to that sample you posted especially from what you just posted above regarding my samples as dull. Instead what I heard was a boring monotonous snoozefest. That track did not grab me at all and do you honestly kid yourself into being entranced by such tripe? All I can conclude is that we're both passionate about trance in different ways.

Let me remind the rest of you that this is a subjective thread and its purpose is to learn about how people perceive trance and not its general/proper definition!

quote:

Originally posted by paulandrews of course we call blue "blue", but that´s just because someone told you "this is blue", regardless of how you really see that. you can´t know if the one who told you does not see "blue" in the way you see "yellow"!

ok, so i'm telling you A is hypnotic, B isn't. game over?

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People who own my ass: Citric Acid, Boomer187, Tribu, Sand Leaper,
Jackson, venomX, jamie, Renegade, Konjin, Akridrot, Miss Bliss.
Psy-T - Down The Rabbit Hole (400minute long acid set)

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T you're claiming here that the author does not know what he meant in his poem.

no.

okay, i´ll put it this way: the author uses a word "cross" in his poem trying to imply the Christ´s crucifix. then the poem is read by someone who has never heard of Christ, is untouched by the christian civilization and in his culture, cross is a synonym to war. and now, the poem can get a completely different meaning now, just because the reader lives in a completely different society!

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"All revolutions are the sheerest fantasies until they happen; then they become historical inevitabilities."

quote:

Originally posted by paulandrews no. okay, i´ll put it this way: the author uses a word "cross" in his poem trying to imply the Christ´s crucifix. then the poem is read by someone who has never heard of Christ, is untouched by the christian civilization and in his culture, cross is a synonym to war. and now, the poem can get a completely different meaning now, just because the reader lives in a completely different society!

but it's not the correct meaning.

___________________
People who own my ass: Citric Acid, Boomer187, Tribu, Sand Leaper,
Jackson, venomX, jamie, Renegade, Konjin, Akridrot, Miss Bliss.
Psy-T - Down The Rabbit Hole (400minute long acid set)

Definetly not like the majority of music played out in clubs today that is called "trance." You see, the problem is, as with any genre of music, once it becomes mainstream, the quality of the music is seriously compromised for mass appeal and/or sales. Back in "the day" there were far fewer producers/DJs of trance. The music wasn't profitable and it certainly wouldn't make you famous. Their motivations for being involved in producing/mixing didn't take factors such as fame or money in to account (unless one happens to be seriously out of touch with reality). Near the late 90s/early 2000s, that all changed. Trance (mostly epic/prog trance) became popular, and hence, profitable. And that's when things went down hill, and alot of us, who loved trance, for the most part, stopped paying attention to it. People who are familiar with what trance was and is now know what I'm talking about, hence all the "trance is dead" threads. I'm not saying there isn't any good trance out there anymore, it's just hard as hell to find considering how much crap there is out there. It takes alot of effort which most "veterans" aren't willing to make. I mean seriously, it a very time consuming and draining process. Most of us have other priorities and things to take care of.

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"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller