quote:

Originally posted by humilis + the problem is people buy that music

crappy tracks don't exactly fly off the shelf. It is good for the up & comers to see support. However if a bunch of half assed copycat tracks sour someone's views on trance well then that part is not good. Some new producers are brilliant and talented, but many are trying to jump on the bandwagon and copy someone else in a diluted form hoping to get a piece of success that the last guy got.

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quote:

Originally posted by DJ NEMESIS crappy tracks don't exactly fly off the shelf.

its looks like you haven't been paying attention.

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quote:

Originally posted by Spacey Orange its looks like you haven't been paying attention.

Sorry I forgot to account for all the people who don't know any better which does in fact make up a massive part of the population who aren't any the wiser.

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As already mentioned indeed one of the main reasons why trance have gone downhills is the huge amount of bedroom producer/djs. One of my closest friend is a producer which recently had his tune released and it was played by Armin on ASOT and praised by the ASOT-ppl. He even told me how little effort he put into the tune. And suddenly he was invited to DJ at different venues even though he hadn't spun a single tune in his entire life. The fact is that he only knew Armin, Above & Beyond and Airbase. ANY other trance producers were totally uknown to him. It's amazing how easy it's to get signed today. The amount of small digitals labels who are hungry for young producers is overflowing the market. They are another reason why trance is going downhills.

Just go back to the 90s and see what happened to goa trance. Goa trance was the most popular trance genre and it was so trendy that you could see goa trance CD ads on the busses and trendy coffee shops used to play goa trance because of the trendy aspect.
The amount of new small goa trance labels was also what killed goa trance. Epic trance of today will propably follow the same path.

But... I also think that one reason why so many of you think trance is dead is because that you only listen to one type of trance. You can't judge the entire trance scene just by listening to ASOT.
As s3nate, Cobalt and some others mentioned here the progpsy scene is really flourishing at the moment with several quality producers.

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So we need to stick to the well-established labels and aritsts, and worship the big names more? I just can't do that I'm sorry, not in a world where these unkown locals are sounding just as good as tiesto or oakey do. I really feel for people who are hunting for good music who now have a bunch of ameteur crap to filter out, and that there is a need to bring more hype to the superior tracks in those piles so that they can be found more easily, but I find ameteur stuff charming and fun. Maybe I am biased because those bedroom DJ kids are the only people playing in my region.

Who are these great producers/DJ's? Why should I favor them over anybody else? Nobody will agree on these things, is this why TA is full of these "my music is better than yours" campaigns? To get people to conform to somebody else's sense of quality so that more hype goes to those tunes, in turn causing them to stick out of the saturated market? The problem seems to be in the ability to filter through the massive amount of material in order to reach the good stuff, so why not work on making better filters, rather than going on these campaigns to get people to conform to other people's tastes?

It sucks that people without talent can get releases with such little effort, that there isn't a higher standard for releasable music, but I don't think we get to this higher standard by forcing these kids to stop trying. I disagree that we are oversaturated, I think that we are undersaturated. If we had more enthusiastic kids, more people following thier passions rather than following social direction, then I think there would be more quality work available. Discouraging enthusiasm for the little guy is the wrong way to go IMHO, at least with little guys there is an excitement and alot more surprises, you really never know what they might sound like which makes things alot more interesting.

I know that the amount of crap out there is frustrating, but I think it is worth considering the idea that we might be undersaturated rather than oversaturated. If it really is so hard to find quality trance, maybe the problem is a lack of quality trance rather than a surplus of crappy stuff diluting it. Discouraging people from trying to make music is the last thing we should be doing I think. We may be discouraging the very hero who is brewing the tunes that will save the genre next.

Last edited by Zombie0915 on Jul-09-2006 at 13:30

this thread needs a 2007 edit, all the old versions are overplayed by now

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Internet killed trance.

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quote:

Originally posted by RebeL9 As already mentioned indeed one of the main reasons why trance have gone downhills is the huge amount of bedroom producer/djs. One of my closest friend is a producer which recently had his tune released and it was played by Armin on ASOT and praised by the ASOT-ppl. He even told me how little effort he put into the tune. And suddenly he was invited to DJ at different venues even though he hadn't spun a single tune in his entire life. The fact is that he only knew Armin, Above & Beyond and Airbase. ANY other trance producers were totally uknown to him. It's amazing how easy it's to get signed today.

With all due respect - fuck off.

Before you make totally ignorant comments about how easy it is to get signed, why dont you actually try getting signed? I assure you it is difficult and I have tried. 2 years production experience. 8 years on guitar and piano. And still got alot to learn and alot to fix before I am anywhere close to getting a record deal. As with any industry that has a business side to it - getting your foot through the door is less about what you know than it is about who you know. It has always been like this. And its the same outside music.

Id really like to see you have a go at building a sound on a semi modular/modular virtual analogue synth today and see how much harder it is to get a sound out of it than an analogue polysynth straight out of the 80s.

Id really like to see you play some of those said Polysynths and realise just how many memorable synth hooks from classic trance tunes are straight presets.

Id like to see you work a 50 hour week for 3 months straight so that you can afford to pay for a Jupiter-6.

Id like to see you learn material acoustics, sound engineering, music production, sound design, DSP coding (and the calculus that goes with it) and how to play all your instruments all at the same time. Because thats what alot of us do nowadays.

A number of us are also holding down full time jobs because all the equipment we use is expensive. Because most producers that are not big enough to have their name on a T-Shirt make fuck all out of a record deal. Some dont even break even so they are making music at a loss. We make music because we love it and if you dont, then thats a subtle hint to broaden your horizons and listen to something else.

I cannot stand this kind of ignorance. With the accessibility of music production resources these days comes an influx of new talent. You just have to look harder to find the stuff you like. As with anything where the volume of art being produced massively increases, it is inevitable that each individual will not connect with the majority of it.

Do not blame it on the producers. We do this because we love it and we are getting ripped off whilst doing it. And after all that we still have petulent little twats like you telling us we suck at the end of the day.

NICE ONE!

No, sorry, but he's right. Just about anyone can get signed to a digital "label" nowadays. And if they don't, hell, they just make their own labels!

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Then dont fucking buy it if its on a digital label. You can hear the soundclip right? If it truly sucks ass that 'label' will go under. If they break even that shows there is some interest there, even if the people showing that interest arent anything like you. Do not begrudge anyone their own successes. I wouldnt do it to any of you.

quote:

Originally posted by Derivative Then dont fucking buy it if its on a digital label. You can hear the soundclip right? If it truly sucks ass that 'label' will go under. If they break even that shows there is some interest there, even if the people showing that interest arent anything like you. Do not begrudge anyone their own successes. I wouldnt do it to any of you.

what is 'breaking even' in the digital-label world to begin with? what expenses do they have to cover?

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HAHAHA. The cost of all your bloody equipment.

How did you miss that?!

Also you have bandwidth costs to consider. The cost is less than a major label distribution. But then again your circulation is smaller too so you make much less money. Think about it.

I have spent thousands on my home studio setup and I still need to spend a couple more thousand to even get it up to snuff for acoustic recording. Digital circulation with very little advertising or promotion you will never make the cost of your equipment back let alone the cost of bandwidth.

You can make a small performance royalty provided you sign up to a society that handles it for you. But theres a fee to join and you wont get a massive amount of airtime. Because you dont make any physical copies, you lose the another revenue stream - mechanical royalties.

That leaves the major source of money to performance. Alot of people just get into spinning records instead of a full blown live setup because:

1) Easy to get all your rig trashed.
2) The logistics of it are complicated and moving it all around is expensive and inconvenient.
3) On small scale distribution you still wont be making mega bucks.

You seriously make fuck all money out of this business until you are big enough that you can be considered a brand name.

Last edited by Derivative on Jul-09-2006 at 16:27