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| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
terrible comparison. the two state of affairs couldn't be more different. |
No, I'm just demonstrating what fighting for rights entails. That is why I said "American history perspective". I know it's not the same in Saudi Arabia!
| quote: | im arguing that your previous post about having no one to blame but themselves shows a fundamental lack of understanding regarding the status of women in the country.
if a woman is not allowed out of the house alone, how the fuck are they meant to organise any type of political resistance? the women in america had a constitution, a properly elected president, and two houses of parliament to hear their claims.
the women in saudi have a court that punishes them for being raped. you do the math. |
I understand the status of women. And no, I'm not saying it's their fault. I'm saying nothing is going to change until they say as a collective, "we're not going to take it anymore." Thank you for demonstrating that the culture over there is totally not ready for freedom as we see it.
| quote: | | 'Reality' is the sake for which the self-righteous take as dogma and try to shove down the throats of those who won't "believe". Careful where you point all that patriotism. |
Patriotism has nothing to do with this conversation. I used a Jefferson quote in reference to the price of freedom as we in the west know it to be. And a simple fact that it doesn't come free on a silver platter. I'm not trying to make you believe anything. In fact, I didn't even know this would turn into a PDD style argument...
| quote: | | What you are asking for is mass suicide. Even if the citizens of Saudi Arabia, male or female, disagreed with their government's human rights policies, how would they go about staging a coup? Maybe arm themselves illegally, organize in secret and wear masks to protect their identities and, subsequently, their families? Wage guerilla warfare against one of the most powerful oil giants in the world? Wage a private revolution against one of the United States' largest oil suppliers? Yeah. that wouldn't get any attention. Revolutionaries wouldn't be marked as terrorists. their families would not be lined up in the streets and shot, innocent people in trains, buses, cars and streets wouldn't be hurt in the process and in the end, they would surely defeat the IDEA of Islamic Law in a society that is inherently religious. You can sit in safety, thousands of miles away, and judge the unwillingness of individuals to toss themselves into a meat grinder all you want, but just because you're all sorts of high and indoctrinated to worship 'freedom' doesn't mean that you are free by any means. |
Did you read my comment? Here it is again..."Are you guys assuming the word "fight" means a violent revolution?
There are many ways to fight for human rights. And rights have ALWAYS been fought for, politically AND sometimes violently.."
I'm not asking for any revolution. I'm simply stating what has to happen if there is to be democratic change in the country. Whatever it entails, they'll have to fight for it. Peacefully or violently, I don't know. It's not my call. And honestly, many countries just aren't ready for it, well...so be it...until the day they say, "we're not going to take it anymore!", things won't change.
| quote: | | Do not think that I am all that ignorant to the cost and the reward for revolution; for change. There is always a price to pay. |
Again, I'm not making any decision, or advocating a violent overthrow of the Saudi government. I'm simply stating again that freedom is always fought for, peacefully or violently, I wouldn't know in Saudi Arabia.
| quote: | | but the decision of sacrifice is not one to be taken lightly and most certainly should not be made by you or I, for that matter. |
I find it funny when people argue statements against me, but yet don't know I actually agree with their argument. As a libertarian, I KNOW ITS NOT OUR DECISION for the self-determination of Saudi Arabia. That's why I said that THEY have to fight for their rights. Not us! Unfortunately, the US admin believes that the US military should take it upon themselves to determine foreign nation's own self-determination.
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