quote:

Originally posted by nefardec are you fucking kidding me? do you know what "visceral" means? do us all a favor and stop pretending your misinformed and inexperienced opinion is some sort of musicological fact i thought you made this big commotion about leaving TA?

I went on Trance.nu and they were too extreme one way (Armin/ASOT) which I don't like either, so Tranceaddict is a little more diverse. And Visceral, yeah it means imagery + experience, like being able to imagine something by listening to it, reading it, being engrossed in it. That's what trance (good, non vocal pop stuff) does for me, and I am sure others. How can it not? It's emotive, beautiful, melodic...melodies convey themes, feelings...house is just as emotional, just in a different way...it's a "soulful" emotion similar to R&B, or a funky, fun (I'm not talking about deep prog house or hard house etc but chicago/vocal/funky/disco stuff and deep house). How can you not listen to a sweeping melodic trance track and not picture something, unless what you listen to has no melody at all but just a booming bass and kickdrum. That's not that visceral...doesn't convey any apparent melody or "theme". Or you just have no imagination at all. Music helps me write, think, dream, that's why I like it.

You act like I can't have an opinion, and I'm somehow a misinformed idiot. House is not soulful? that's misinformed? Trance hasn't had huge parties in the past and still does (but to a lesser extent) and trance having differen't sub-genres, some less uplifting than others..darker stuff, harder stuff...yeah misinformed. Music having different feelings? yeah misinformed....not all trance is uplifting, not all techno is hard and dark...I know that, I'm just playing up common ideas that revolve around the music, not blatant generalities as you might assume. Different crowds invite different people with different ideas about the music. There's no one way to experience it. But trance is more diverse (as I am arguing) than some people think..if you search and if you learn to build a good set.

You guys will come back and say "it's just dance music, made for dancing in clubs"....which to me is the biggest generalization and plain boring idea about this music..like you have to be in a club to listen to it, appreciate it, and not see it as good music that can work for other purposes, in other ways than maximum dance floor effect.

Last edited by Spirit5 on Dec-19-2007 at 06:20

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt Or Walking On Fire. Or Beauty Never Fades. Or Midtone - Pearl. Or I Have Put Out The Light. Or Wavy Gravy, or Bloodlock. Or Emerald. Or... Should we even bother with 2001?

Hahah.

Check these out:

D. Diggler - Somewhere Sunday (old yeah)
Brauns, Nils Nurnberg - Delicious
Phonogenic - Future Bass
Monocle - Something To Say
Dave Turov - Inference
Lars Wickinger - Le Chique


These are stripped down compared to that prog sound but I still think they have good melodic elements and construction, and the simplicity is actually something I really like. I'll try and think of some that fit your examples better later...

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

Nefardec, maybe I should have used "Evocative" rather than Visceral, but they are pretty similar...you should know what I mean.

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 You act like I can't have an opinion, and I'm somehow a misinformed idiot. House is not soulful? that's misinformed?

?? where did you get that from?

i think what I said was, stop pretending your opinion is some sort of fact...

i am sure hundreds of people will tell you that techno and house are far more visceral than most melodic trance tracks. melodic trance i feel is more a mental music because it demands one pay attention to melodic movement and sweeping structural overtures rather than to get down and intimate with the sound

house and techno will just let you jack on a single loop for 8 minutes. it's all about the body. you should listen to the jay tripwire set i have on right now. it doesn't make you IMAGINE another world. it makes you believe your body is actually already there


im just saying... one can easily make a case against what you are writing here as fact..


and by the way- visceral means "BODILY". it is in fact the opposite of image. a visceral sound may as well be a real force punching you in the gut.

it has little to do with most trance music.

here i hate doing this but you need it:

quote:

visceral Main Entry: vis·cer·al Listen to the pronunciation of visceral 1 : felt in or as if in the viscera : deep 2 : not intellectual : instinctive, unreasoning 3 : dealing with crude or elemental emotions : earthy 4 : of, relating to, or located on or among the viscera : splanchnic

also, evocative is really subjective too.

all art is evocative to the beholder relative to that person's own experience.

and your comment about imagination ....

Last edited by nefardec on Dec-19-2007 at 06:44

Okay fair game but the better term is "evocative" then. I used the wrong term...SORRY! Trance is more "evocative" than them IMO because it conveys a lot of emotion, and tends to be very melodic. House and techno I did say can be melodic (house being very melodic at points as well) but I don't feel it puts images in your head, takes you on a journey like trance does. But for dancing, I prefer house and techno, but for listening and mixing at home..it's trance.

I don't mean to come across like what I say is fact, but rather I find it unfathomable that some people would deny a music is a certain way. Some others might not think trance is evocative, emotional or beautiful in anyway shape or form, but I don't think I am the only person in the world that shares this opinion of the tracks I like, esp the older ones that did it better. It's like saying a track meant to be beautiful is actually ugly...I'm sure those into not so beautiful sounding tracks would find it ugly, but was it the artists intention to make a song that was ugly sounding? there's plenty of ugly sounding tracks that I like as the artist never intended to make the track emotional or beautiful..just serving it's purpose as a fun albeit ugly track. Do you think Solar Stone's "Seven Cities" was designed to be an ugly track? No, I think the guys intended it to be one tracks that would rile up people's emotions.

Last edited by Spirit5 on Dec-19-2007 at 06:44

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec splanchnic

Now there's a funky word.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec all art is evocative to the beholder relative to that person's own experience. and your comment about imagination ....

I understand that, but am I the only person on here that feels this way about trance? I'd like to know cause then I won't make these statements. And my comment about the imagination...it's not superiority, it's that I feel this music is imaginative, it's dreamy...I like dreamy music (not just trance) and that's what it does for me. To others, it's just dance music. And that's fine, but am in the minority here that just listens to trance at home? in my car? on my computer? Doesn't go to clubs, festivals etc...your painting me out to be something I'm not intending to come across as but use the elitist card against me as I have used it against you and others on this forum.

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 House and techno I did say can be melodic (house being very melodic at points as well) but I don't feel it puts images in your head, takes you on a journey like trance does. But for dancing, I prefer house and techno, but for listening and mixing at home..it's trance.

did you ever consider

that maybe the reason you don't feel it puts images in your head

is because your imagination is rather narrow?



for me what is important is not an "image" which inspires the creation of superficial and melodramatic music, but a true feeling created by the actual fucking soundwaves flowing through your body!!!

that is more inspiring than anything to me... it is real healing power

images are false prophets. it's like eating sugar candy compared to a big juicy steak

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec did you ever consider that maybe the reason you don't feel it puts images in your head is because your imagination is rather narrow? for me what is important is not an "image" which inspires the creation of superficial and melodramatic music, but a true feeling created by the actual fucking soundwaves flowing through your body!!! that is more inspiring than anything to me... it is real healing power images are false prophets. it's like eating sugar candy compared to a big juicy steak

Not if those images inspire you to create....whether it's writing, paintning, drawing, film etc. Or with music therapy..the feelings associated with the music help uplift your mood, relax you etc. I'm not talking about trance per say, but music in general. My imagination is not narrow, what makes you assume that? Images are what inspires many people to do things, and I am sure many music producers create music based on imagery or "themes", conceptual type stuff. Moody Blues, Pink Floyd, Tangerine Dream, even the Beatles. And there's also imagery used in many festivals and clubs along with the music..and VISUALIZATIONS that play along with the music..even a thing called Synaethesia that some people have. And soundtracks...many good film soundtracks correspond to scenes in the movie...the feel of the track...darker tracks for sadder scenes, more uplifting tracks for happier scenes etc. Plenty of producers create the instrumentals first, and then a vocalist listens to it and write what images the track inspires or vice versa...or take something in their life and create a track that is inspired by it. I never said (or meant to say) those genres don't ever put images in my head, trance as a form of EDM does it more so than they do...instrumentals more so than vocal. But there is other music (noteably ambient/new age tracks) that do it even more so than trance.

I get the impression you both are talking past each other. You know, when I can decode what Spirit5 is saying.

For the record, I most enjoy trance and progressive for their effects on a dancefloor, not for anything imaginary. People can talk all they want about people getting down to house or techno, but the most amazing memories I have of people dancing involve progressive.

oh please

i am a designer, an architecture student, i paint, dj, and produce music. i get paid to have an imagination

i can listen to the sound of pigs writhing in a pen and it can inspire me, i don't need an overproduced melodic trance number



i'd like to quote one of my favorite passages from hesse's steppenwolf, and then i'm out. the horse is sufficiently beaten

there is a deeper level of knowledge that is within your own body, within all of our bodies. we have it in ourselves, just let loose and find it

quote:

Then what does it depend on?/On making music, Herr Haller, on making music as well and as much as possible, and with all the intensity of which one is capable. That is the point, Monsieur. Though I carried the complete works of Bach and Haydn in my head and could say the cleverest things about them, not a soul would be the better for it. But when I take hold of my mouthpiece and play a lively shimmy, whether the shimmy be good or bad, it will give people pleasure. It gets into their legs and into their blood. That's the point and that alone. Look at the faces in a dance hall at the moment when the music strikes up after a longish pause, how eyes sparkle, legs twitch and faces begin to laugh. That is why one makes music.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec hesse's steppenwolf

That book had one of the best descriptions I've read of the kind of feeling you get in a club when there are people dancing all around you. Interesting novel.