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Originally posted by Vitek06 well italy scored yesterday ... but refree said "NO" OFFSIDE"

Agreed

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Originally posted by Vitek06 holland's first goal against italy was clearly OFFSIDE...

You can call it unfair, but that goal was a 100% legit, no matter how you look at it

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Originally posted by Vitek06 holland def stopped the ball with the hand ... but refree said "NO"

I don't think I'vee seen this, so can't judge it

irrelevant to their killer play of football

their team kit is awesome! kinda old school with those huge numbers

i need!

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Originally posted by chorche He is tall, I am tall, I am not afraid to meet him. He is perfect, I can only hardly believe, that such old man could be so perfect! I meet some Dutch some times ago, we had a little chat and they ask me, who is best Dutch player. I said: van der Saar! It was some years ago, but his importance for team is great! Look at Lehmann! Terrible "player"! But D-mens in front of him are great. Oranjes have not that kind of players. Oranjes have Edwin! Do not crucify me, but he is half of Dutch`s defensive. And he can throw ball really far from his goal. He is not so great as "Gigi" Buffon ot Petr Cech, but his importance for team is extremly markable. Thumbs up for old Edwin!

Yeah he's definetly up there in my top 5 goalkeepers in the tournament along with Cech, Buffon, Boruc and Casillas.

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Originally posted by pierre_escargot Your right, Holland's defence still look as shaky as an epileptic in a nightclub, but when you've got so many attacking options, who needs one when your always going to score. Mind you. I still have reservations about what kind of team they'd be if they fell behind and had to attack instead of counter-attack all the time.

I'm wondering where this flakey defence rumours comes from?

Out of 12 qualifying matches, only a handful of goals were scored vs. Netherlands.
Out of 35-odd performances when he's played under v.Basten, v.d.Saar has only lost twice.

NL have always been a threat going forwards, but i've never seen so many chances taken by the frontline. It's always been a case of missed chances, so far everything has flown into the goal this tournament.

So what? They have the strongest attack. Despite looking flakey, the fact remains, that Italy couldn't score, and France managed just one (despite a very stretched match).

It'll be difficult vs. Germany/Croatia, Portugal or Spain but one of these 5 are going all the way. Especially Portugal - but i so want a NL vs. PT final. Revenge for when those cheating ****s knocked out NL in 2004.

In a way France & Italy share the same problem... a coach who cannot change the shape when things hit the fan. In both matches the Dutch played, v. Basten has done some changes in the half time or some way into the second half and changed the shape. Engelaar had a stinker vs. France, and v. Basten changes Dutch shape at halftime with Robben coming on.

Donadonia & Domenech when faced with a mountain to climb in these games have not opted to change anything - meaning the dutch tactics continued to work.

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Tiesto Tracklist Archive - Independently Online

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Originally posted by eieregooie You can call it unfair, but that goal was a 100% legit, no matter how you look at it

it's definitely unfair. That rule should never have existed. And isn't the rule saying that it's offside when the player deliberately tries to circumvent it by go out of the field? Well, in this incident that clearly wasn't the case

Actually, I even thought there was an official rule that said that "a player that isn't on the field (not between the lines) doesn't participate in the play"

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Originally posted by FCB_Fanatic it's definitely unfair. That rule should never have existed. And isn't the rule saying that it's offside when the player deliberately tries to circumvent it by go out of the field? Well, in this incident that clearly wasn't the case

No, it doesn't say that.

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Originally posted by FCB_Fanatic Actually, I even thought there was an official rule that said that "a player that isn't on the field (not between the lines) doesn't participate in the play"

There isn't, and it would be ridiculous. Just because the ball may not cross the line doesn't mean the players can't. Besides "on the field" and "between the lines" aren't necessarily the same thing


Like I said, u can think of it what u want and call it unfair, but as it was played by the rules it's completely legit. If u think the rules are unfair, write a letter to FIFA, but don't blame the ref or the teams for playing by the rules. If anyone was offside in NL's games, it was Henry

Last edited by eieregooie on Jun-15-2008 at 00:48

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Originally posted by Vitek06 holland def stopped the ball with the hand ... but refree said "NO"

I've now seen it, and it's a fact. I'm not convinced it was intentional tho, and appearantly the ref wasn't either.

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Originally posted by eieregooie No, it doesn't say that.

So what DOES it say?

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There isn't, and it would be ridiculous. Just because the ball may not cross the line doesn't mean the players can't. Besides "on the field" and "between the lines" aren't necessarily the same thing

how often hasn't it happened that a player deliberately pulls himself back after the goal line to circumvent offside and the referee didn't give a kick? ... well, pretty often

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Like I said, u can think of it what u want and call it unfair, but as it was played by the rules it's completely legit. If u think the rules are unfair, write a letter to FIFA, but don't blame the ref or the teams for playing by the rules. If anyone was offside in NL's games, it was Henry

so what about a player that's injured and gets treatment next to the sideline? That player is still participating the game according this rule. Teams can from now on easily take advantage of that (just to illustrate how rediculus this rule is)

First of all, I think you're mixing up attacking and defending players. Why on earth would a defending player want to circumvent offside? They want to cause it!

There's no point in discussing with someone who hasn't got his facts straight and who's words oppose the point he's trying to make. If you want my view, go read the NL vs IT thread. I have nothing to add to that, plus all your arguments have passed there.

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Originally posted by eieregooie First of all, I think you're mixing up attacking and defending players. Why on earth would a defending player want to circumvent offside? They want to cause it! There's no point in discussing with someone who hasn't got his facts straight and who's words oppose the point he's trying to make. If you want my view, go read the NL vs IT thread. I have nothing to add to that, plus all your arguments have passed there.

maybe I'm expressing myself not correctly, but it's you who doens't get my point. I mean the following: suppose the same situation as with holland. The player isn't injured ... but coming back on the field would certainly mean the opposite team (Holland) could take advantage of that. It's happened numbers of times a defending player (deliberately) waited on the right moment to get back on the field (e.g. I remember a situation like that with Italy on a previous EC / WC). Cases like this illustrate perfectly that even the players never knew about this rule. Never once has there been any comments on cases like this, that a player acting this way would still be part of the play.

Even the head of the referees in Belgium explained after the incident, that altough the rule exist, it isn't even applied in Belgium. I wouldn't be surprised if this is valid for many countries.

I think lots of people were surprised with the announcement that the goal indeed was valid. And although the goal is valid thanks to one obscure rule no-one knows, everyone (except the Dutch) think this was an unfair call (as you illustrate youself how hard it is admitting it was an unfair situation).

By the way, do you really think that in case the goal would have been disallowed, this would be an issue now???

Just caught the highlights and it looks like Ribery and Malouda were the only ones playing for France, although they could've and perhaps should've scored atleast another 2 goals including a penalty.

Holland's counter-attack play is perfect, the speed and timing of the passes across the field are sublime it confused France and even Italy. If holland keep up the good work they will make it far especially after beating to superior world cup finalists. Not only is their confidence sky high but they are afraid of nothing now.

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1934, 1938, 1982, 2006

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Originally posted by FCB_Fanatic Belgium

Yeah, great argument Did u even read the other thread?

Anyways, if it's such an obscure rule, why did half of the reporters get it right straight away? Including the Italians? I didn't hear them complaining... Just like I said in the other topic, fairness is subjective. Imo it would be unfair to determine on/offside by where a player falls, that's just pure randomness. In addition it might be tempting for players to have themselves pushed outside the lines.

And in this particular case, no foul had been committed against the player. Even if he really was injured, which I highly doubt judging by how quick he got up to protest with the ref, it's the Italians own damn fault. So where's the unfairness? I don't see it. I know others do, and I respect that. But ultimately, despite the argument about what's fair and what's not, it was played by the rules.

Now we can discuss for ages about what could happen regarding this rule and how bad it could be, but it doesn't really matter now does it? This call wasn't as unfair as you claim it to be, considering this specific situation.

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Originally posted by FCB_Fanatic maybe I'm expressing myself not correctly, but it's you who doens't get my point.

U do realize one is causing the other?