quote:

Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 see, you can't even try to discuss this objectively with some people. They see any mention of UFOs and they immediately think "stupid" because they are uneducated and naive. There still has been no decent explanation of what those things were. Not from anyone here and not from anyone in the press, scientific community or various government administrations. But you're so quick to say it's anything but a UFO. The ignorance here is astonishing. I don't know what they are for sure, but these sightings, accounts, testimonies, images and recordings have only increased in frequency. And frankly I'm surprised that so many of you simply don't care.

OBJECTIVELY? LOL
You want to discuss UFO’s objectivity?
Objective means complete and empirical consensus, not a bunch of fucking youtube videos. So “objectivity” the only rational and scientific stance would be an agnostic one.

So let me get this straight, your premise is: nobody has been able to explain these “incidents” therefore they must be alien life forms? I’m sure you’ve heard of the saying “God begins where science ends.” because the validity of your argument is equal to this ridiculous principle.

There is nothing wrong in venturing a guess—but please, in the process do not try to impose your skewed beliefs on to others as if they were empirical facts. In all probability, there are other life forms in the universe; and its not that nobody cares, on the contrary, we have scientists who devote their entire careers into examining this field. But until we are presented with indisputable, objective evidence, every single scientist going by the scientific method, would have to yield to a stance of agnosticism.

So please, just stop this thread—with questions like this, you ask a 100 people, and you’ll get a100 different answers.

Why cant we assume that there are things way beyond our current science and our current understading of the universe?

why cant we approach things with an openminded view? instead of name callings.

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Why cant we all just choose to (or choose not to) form our own opinions without being called naive, stupid, or insane.... Oh wait.. this is TOTA

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quote:

Originally posted by spolitta I don't have a personal opinion about UFOs, but with at least 100 billion fucking galaxies in our observable universe, why is it so hard to believe that extraterrestrial life exists?

That could mean many things. There is a significant progression of claims between what you just said and aliens visiting our planet with UFOs:

- Life exists on other planets. (almost definite)
- Multi-cellular organisms exists on other planets. (very likely)
- Highly-organized beings exist on other planets. (probably)
- Sentient beings exist on other planets. (maybe)
- Sentient beings who are at a much more advanced stage of development than us exist on other planets. (ehhh...)
- Advanced sentient beings exist on distant planets and have (a) mastered faster-than-light travel, (b) found methods to halt the aging process, and/or (c) have natural lifespans of thousands of years. (ummm...)
- Hyper-advanced sentient beings capable of interstellar travel exist and are interested in and committed to searching for civilizations nowhere near their current stage of development (only on Star Trek).
- Hyper-advanced sentient beings have already mapped out most of the galaxy or universe and have somehow managed to find us and have taken an interest in us before falling victim to war or catastrophe (getting more than a little far-fetched now)
- Aforementioned beings have done all this and have chosen to make contact with us... by flashing lights in the sky and performing air stunts. (huh?)

Also, the probability argument ignores the time dimension. The universe is billions of years old; our civilization is nowhere near that, and it's entirely possible that there have been other advanced, sentient civilizations, or will be, but that they don't/won't exist during the period of human existence (face it, we won't be around forever).

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I'm sure that you can do a quick search for the official release of French and British reports. The UK is still in the process of releasing their classified documents after being pressured by under the Freedom of Information Act.

Here is a list of historically documented sightings. Interesting that they go quite a ways back and are all similar in their reports (disks, oval shaped, bright lights, hovering, etc). The more recent stuff is very interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UFO_sightings

You can read some of the British declassified stuff here.

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/e...ufos/index.html

You can find declassified American reports of sightings all over the place, as well as FAA reports and documents that are available. All you have to do is a little objective digging and you can easily see that this very widespread.

Did you even watch the Mexican Defence Department footage released in May? There is tons of shit out there that at least RAISES QUESTIONS and leaves things unexplained.

There are so many clips out there, too, of military and civilian jets being followed by things that they clearly cannot identify. If it isn't intelligent life tracking our space shuttles and aircraft, then what are they? In some cases, the ONLY logical conclusion is that these are things with some kind of intelligence.

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quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer The Famous Phoenix lights

there again. This kind of footage is literally UNENDING.

And again, Cookie, just because these videos are NOW on Youtube (everything is on Youtube Mr. Spin Doctor) doesn't mean they werent officially broadcast at the time of the happenings. UFO footage regularly gets coverage on the media networks too.

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quote:

Originally posted by evil_cookie OBJECTIVELY? LOL You want to discuss UFO’s objectivity? Objective means complete and empirical consensus, not a bunch of fucking youtube videos. So “objectivity” the only rational and scientific stance would be an agnostic one. So let me get this straight, your premise is: nobody has been able to explain these “incidents” therefore they must be alien life forms? I’m sure you’ve heard of the saying “God begins where science ends.” because the validity of your argument is equal to this ridiculous principle. There is nothing wrong in venturing a guess—but please, in the process do not try to impose your skewed beliefs on to others as if they were empirical facts. In all probability, there are other life forms in the universe; and its not that nobody cares, on the contrary, we have scientists who devote their entire careers into examining this field. But until we are presented with indisputable, objective evidence, every single scientist going by the scientific method, would have to yield to a stance of agnosticism. So please, just stop this thread—with questions like this, you ask a 100 people, and you’ll get a100 different answers.

but how can the scientific community get proper access to whatever is out there? Astronomers and ufo researchers in the academic world don't have the funding to carry out this type of research that can, without a doubt, prove their existence. The military estbalishments of all nations involved have to cooperate or we'll never get the whole picture.

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quote:

Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 I'm sure that you can do a quick search for the official release of French and British reports.

Protip: When you are trying to persuade other people of your belief, you don't ask them to do the research.

quote:

You can read some of the British declassified stuff here. http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/e...ufos/index.html

So your sole evidence here is a "declassified" document which details what other people with no expertise in the subject claimed to have seen? Wow, I'm convinced, sign me up.

Jesus, I thought there'd at least be a ship blueprint or RF analysis or something. All you have is an instance of a government going "Here, we really don't feel like investing every single fucking UFO sighting anymore, so we're giving you assholes our files so you can investigate them yourselves."

quote:

You can find declassified American reports of sightings all over the place, as well as FAA reports and documents that are available.

Again, burden of proof. Don't ask your critics to do your work for you.

quote:

There are so many clips out there, too, of military and civilian jets being followed by things that they clearly cannot identify.

Most of which are shit quality, making it nearly impossible to tell what's really going on.

quote:

In some cases, the ONLY logical conclusion is that these are things with some kind of intelligence.

Would you care to explain to us how this is a logical conclusion at all, much less the ONLY one?

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My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

quote:

Originally posted by Intangible Why cant we all just choose to (or choose not to) form our own opinions without being called naive, stupid, or insane....

Most likely because there are people in the peanut gallery who are skeptical, intelligent, and/or sane, and who don't take kindly to having their experience, intelligence, and/or sanity insulted.

That's not a complete theory though, just one plausible explanation.

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

If you believe that governments do lie, and tomorrow morning you turn on the TV and learn that three governments have publicly announced that UFOs are really Alien Spacecrafts which they knew about for more than 50 years and never told the public about, how exactly are you gonna be sure that is the truth and they are still not covering up the real story which could even be more significant than the existence of aliens, because you do believe governments lie when they need to, right? So I guess when there is no hard evidence, it always comes down to what you want to believe, and what you want to believe is not always the reality.

Hmmmm this is interesting... I see lots of people debating here, throwing names and whatnot at each other.

To think through this logically (and to use Occam's razor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor - All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best.)

1. There are hundreds and hundreds of videos and photos of unexplained "things".
2. The list is growing literally by a few hundred accounts every year
3. Logically, at least a small percentage of them must be real

This tells us just that - that some of the photo's and videos contain "funny-looking things" in them. That's it. It doesn't tell us WHAT is in the pictures, just that it's something "funny-looking".

Now, to consider all options. These funny-looking things are:

1. God's doing - don't laugh, we're trying out all solutions
2. Unexplained weather phenomenon
3. Aliens
4. Man-made stuff


In my mind, 1 and 3 are pretty much the same. If aliens exist, and can do all this crazy levitating-flying-between-solar-systems stuff, then they're pretty damn close to God in that they're WELL above us in intelligence level.

Hence, the only question you as a person have to ask yourself is:


Do I believe that all these video's show
1. Extraterrestrial/God-like creature or it's effects.
2. Weather/vision phenomenon?
3. Man-made secret technology that we are not aware of?

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