quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus I mean look at Kyoto. You wanted the USA to sign the protocol (which I don't think was bad, the bad part was not offering another plan). Ok so the USA didn't sign it. Why do you guys need the USA? Go organize the protocol and sign it yourselfs! Why didn't you? Because your governments discovered the protocol is not all that and the Americans were right.. it was a pretty dumb plan, we need better. [/i]

In addition to what Renegade said, I would add that some leaders in the world have chosen to value a cleaner world for future generations above money, and have thus continued the process. It's too bad that the US will gain an unfair advantage by not following suit.

ok i would just like to state that me and Orbax are not really on the SAME page witrh this arguemet....

i have no problems with any other countries in this world....we ALL have are ups and downs....i like people from all walks of life and dont pre-judge someone based on their nationality .....

I could care less really about the U.S. being a super power or what have you....

i just wanna read the boards without feeling like Americans are concidered a joke in the community....thats all...nothing more ..nothing less...

Persoanlley my step mother is French from Montpellier in the South of France...i have 2 half brothers that are part French, my father was born in Germany ( not really sure where but i beleive near Hockenheim)...my best friend is from Greece (but lives here now)..and i have many many friends that are Greek, Romanian, Italian, Albanian, French, and British...and i dotn mean there parents where born there..i mean they themselves where born and raised there...so i get along great with Europeans and have much love and respect for them and all people from accross the world....

Orbax has gone to the extremes to say why he is upset..but i just want us to be a trance community not a trance communtiy divided by borders....

is that so much to ask?

___________________
Bring back 1994 NYC clubbing nights, cus the sh*t today is filled with junk parties and DJs that play sh*t House.....Zabiela, Sander, or Howells and all the rest suck and couldnt throw a night like it was in the early 90s in NYC!!!...Screw Twilo - give me Limelight circa 1993!!!

I was not amused, but confused about the statement made by Orbax.

Its opinions like that, that cause bigger rifts between people.

U must know that saying stuff like "you are Nothing, you must always remember that" is a direct insult?!

Now i truly know that all americans are fat and stupid.

___________________

The Midnight Collective MySpace

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic In addition to what Renegade said, I would add that some leaders in the world have chosen to value a cleaner world for future generations above money, and have thus continued the process. It's too bad that the US will gain an unfair advantage by not following suit.

Yes, the USA is doing something very interesting here - it is looking out for its future. The fact is it could care less if it were applied the same constraints as the rest of the world. But the fact is, most of the world is not under the same constraints. And for Bush this was a sore spot, as he belives China (I agree with him) is the most likely canidate for the next super-power. They will be greatly helped with the Kyoto treaty as they can pollute limitless, and America would have to halt production, decreasing its ability to compete.

Already China is aimming for the moon, planes on deploying carriers, and creating a modern military able or projecting its might. This is indeed a valid concern for America. Again I do not agree with Bush being an anti-environmentalist, but I do belive he got it right on this one. The Kyoto treaty should be one standard applied the world, enough with the hypocricy.

Now correct me if I am wrong Renegade, as all my facts on Kyoto come from a year back when it was actually relevant, but wasn't the deal if it was being signed by all the nations that it would be forced upon the nations who did not agree?

And another note, although you Euros think you guys consume less then the yanks, and pollute less, then you have to look at it again, it really is just marginal (compare populace, and nation size to pollution/consumption). The only difference is you guys can claim you are doing something about it.

Yoepus
no kitty, you already gave him one present, he doesn't need anymore

quote:

Originally posted by dj_mdma Now i truly know that all americans are fat and stupid.

Btw, thats a joke, just in case SOMEONE took it too seriously!

___________________

The Midnight Collective MySpace

quote:

Originally posted by tiesto14 You are right other countries do go through terribel things...and i have noticed.... but NOONE would ever conceive of making fun of a a country who has starving children...why..well because its low-class and just cruel... BUT you on the other hand went out fo your way to mock the attacks...i am sorry but i take great offense to that because i PERSONALLY have lost loved ones due to those attacks....and you continue to make light of it...you are very rude and obnoxious...you have zero respect for me or anyone who was affected by those attacks and all the lost lives on that day...

haha since when did i CONTINUE TO MAKE LIGHT OF IT. you are the one pointing out all non US take the thing light heartedly? your doing it again! get a grip!

___________________
Fave Tune at the Moment: Mesmerizer - Taking Control

>>> Download my mix here <<< (Electro, Techno & Psy-Trance)

quote:

Originally posted by tiesto14 I have seen people mock the September 11th attacks on are country with COMPLETE disregard to how American TAs would feel or respond...

if i could just make a point. Why do some americans such as yourself feel that you were the only victims of this attack. My best friends dad was in one of the towers and was killed, and as well as this, business partners of my dad were killed also, which has almost bankrupted my dads business putting them nearly all out of work.

I remember arrogant George Bush's speech the day after the attack saying "how dare this happen to us" like if it had happened to someone else it wouldnt of mattered. I think u guys need to wake up and realise u werent the only victims here.


Oh yea, btw this thread is dumb.

peace

mikey

Although I wasn't born in the United States, I've lived here for a very long time, since early childhood.

The biggest problem with this country is its Puritan heritage that makes a lot of people extremely conservative, especially when compared with Europe. For example, not only is the drinking age 21 (higher than anywhere else), but you'll also get arrested for drinking alcohol on the street. You can't buy erotic magazines or videos in about half the states, because porn is strictly prohibited (especially in the "Bible Belt"). On TV or in the media, they never show any sex or nudity; even the slightest hints thereof are always censored. Sometimes students have to have "parental permissions" to attend art shows where there are naked statues (!), and, just so you know, in about 30 states oral sex and cohabitation without being married are illegal. The State of Utah even has a "porn czar" that immediately censors anything even remotely "objectionable." In some states, high school students have to give virginity pledges (!). Teenagers can't assemble on the street, because this is "loitering," and there's an official legal curfew for them. Oh, I forgot about the "war on drugs" and Bush's "zero tolerance" that makes America so famous, as well as the Clinton sex scandal that showed the stupidity of many Americans.

So as you can see, although the US is considered "the Land of the Free," everyday freedoms are lower than in Europe.

This is the biggest problem I have. Foreign policy could also be a little softer and more reasonable with respect to the rest of the world; maybe that would prevent some of the hatred. However, this is indeed a great country with many opportunities, and I like living here!

___________________

Download all my EuroHardTrance traxx & learn more about me ("Kompulsor"):
www.kompulsor.com

quote:

Renegade and others would like us to belive that a Nation's leader does not repersent the Nations people, particularly in democracy. I will call this blantly idealistic and untrue. All though a Nation never repersents ALL its people, it repersents MOST its people.

Yeah, I don't disagree that within a democratic society, the leaders, by and large, represent the views of the majority. But at the same time, I simply wish to make the distinction between the government and the people, because the decisions that the government makes are tangible and thus open to critique, whereas I cannot possibly make judgements on the American people, given that I have never lived there. For me to generalise and say "Americans support this" or "I completely disagree with Americans because...." is illogical. Perhaps the majority of Americans do support the things I oppose, but it still doesn't give me the right to make generalisations about the entire populace.

Perhaps it's just my PC side coming out, but I've made the distinction for a reason. I don't think it's overly important, but I feel I should make this clear so as to avoid being accused of making attacks that could be construed as "personal" when that wasn't my intention at all.

quote:

But the fact is, most of the world is not under the same constraints. And for Bush this was a sore spot, as he belives China (I agree with him) is the most likely canidate for the next super-power. They will be greatly helped with the Kyoto treaty as they can pollute limitless, and America would have to halt production, decreasing its ability to compete.

No, no, no. Within the Kyoto protocol, it does allow for some countries to increase pollution, but at the same time these increases, in theory, ensure that these countries do not increase pollution at the rate that they may otherwise do. So, for instance, Australia was allowed a small increase in emmissions, but the increase in emitions was likely to be higher without the protocol in place. So, in effect, all countries, in some way, are constrained in the emmissions that they can produce, and no country was given free range to produce as much pollution as they like.

As for your superpower theory, I think most analysts agree that China will overtake the US as the main global economic force within the next 50 odd years, Kyoto Protocol or not. It makes no sense to allow for the pollution of our planet simply to delay the inevitable - isn't it arrogant to assume that China will be a less worthy superpower than the US anyway? If that's the assumption your fears are based on?

quote:

Now correct me if I am wrong Renegade, as all my facts on Kyoto come from a year back when it was actually relevant, but wasn't the deal if it was being signed by all the nations that it would be forced upon the nations who did not agree?

Well my memory on the issue is a bit hazy now, so I could be wrong, but I think the idea was that most of the countries - particularly those with large, already established economies - would sign the protocol, and then use this collective power to influence other nations into complying with it.

Though, so far as I know, if a country didn't sign the treaty, then there is no way the deal can be "forced" upon them.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike if i could just make a point. Why do some americans such as yourself feel that you were the only victims of this attack. My best friends dad was in one of the towers and was killed, and as well as this, business partners of my dad were killed also, which has almost bankrupted my dads business putting them nearly all out of work. I remember arrogant George Bush's speech the day after the attack saying "how dare this happen to us" like if it had happened to someone else it wouldnt of mattered. I think u guys need to wake up and realise u werent the only victims here.

well i assume noone else cares in here if people make light of the attacks...but i do...i have not once said that American where the only ones affected that day...not once...

But rememeber the attacks where in MY backyard....i saw them happen with MY eyes..not the TV..with my OWN EYES....I SAW PEOPLE jumping for their lives from a 100 story building and heard their desperate screams and the sound of there bodies slamming against the floor even though i was blocks away....i saw the terror in peoples eyes from ALL walks of lives...i was there not knowing if another plane was coming or what else was going to happen....I was there, not even 20 blocks from the collapse holding a girlfriend of mine who thought she was going to die at any minute...and i was the one who had to be strong and protect her from her fears...I lost friends on that day...who thought they where going to work and had plans after work to go out at night..but couldnt...i had a friend who was flying to California that day who ended up flying into a fucking building..someone i grew up with!!!!!!......i saw grown men, police men and firemen cry with tears as they knew they could do nothing to help these people...I went home that day and had to clean myself of all the dust that was all over my body from once was the twin towers...

SO FUCK OFF IF I TAKE IT A LITTLE PERSONAL....i live in NYC and saw it first hand...i wasnt 20 miles away..i wasnt watching on TV..i wasnt hearing it on the radio...i was there...i could walk from where i was watching to the towers in under 15 minutes....

i am not saying i am the only one./././i KNOW FOR A FACT i am not...but i am the only one on this board who seems to take great offense to the way some people regard that day........

___________________
Bring back 1994 NYC clubbing nights, cus the sh*t today is filled with junk parties and DJs that play sh*t House.....Zabiela, Sander, or Howells and all the rest suck and couldnt throw a night like it was in the early 90s in NYC!!!...Screw Twilo - give me Limelight circa 1993!!!

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike Oh yea, btw this thread is dumb.

I am beginning to agree with you there...

As an American, I want to put in my two cents for our defense. We do take Sept 11 very seriously and I don't think that it is just because I live near New York. It is certaintly the most devasting thing that has happened to our country in my lifetime and we all have our own ways of dealing with it. Obviously some people are irrational about it or overly violent, but everyone has had different reactions, so please don't generalize, just as you ask us not to generalize about Europe.

Second, I am certaintly not speaking for everyone, but a lot of Americans have very uniformed concepts about foriegn politics (especially myself) so don't expect us to understand why some of you hate us because we really don't know what we did wrong sometimes.

We live in a VERY big country with drastically different ways of life so it is often to overwheling to worry about cultures on a continent 3000+ miles away. I am not saying that we shouldn't make more of an effort to understand why you make fun of us, but your culture does not touch ours directly on a regular basis (except here maybe).




Finally, a comment from a couple pages ago claimed Europe produces better music - I have to agree that you have produced some superbly superior DJs to this country and most of our pop music is absolute crap and an embarrasment to this country.

Maybe that is a more relevant thing to discuss considering the forum we are on?

quote:

Originally posted by DuMonde TrAnCeR haha since when did i CONTINUE TO MAKE LIGHT OF IT.

well since u r intrested to know when u did the fucken stupid comment of flight 643 and people told u it was rude and stuff..u still went on and thats when me and u went at it until u finally shut it..when u noticed that u aint funny..