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| quote: | Originally posted by spolitta
Well, I'm with you on that. But truth of the matter is that to a large extend it's not just the terrorists but the Islam itself is against some of our values. On the other hand, some of our western culture is against their values, which is why it's important we stay away from the middle east and mind our own business. |
There is a clear difference between religious and cultural differences and outright fucked up ideology that goes against what you and I believe in.
So how are you going to deal with extremist Islam that is popping up even in Canada? Clearly this issue isn't going to go away, and not being engaged and seeking isolationist stance isn't going to solve anything.
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You mentioned an uberly important point and that's one of the reasons why the middle east issue is very complicated. But when I separate politics from reality I strongly believe that your point has been exaggerated to a very large extend in the western culture and there is no real treat of Islam invading the world or even trying to. The only government who really pretends that wants this to happen is Iran, now why Iran would never ever try to this is an entirely different discussion. |
It's not Islam that is the threat. It's perverted version of Islam that fundamentalists are spouting. That distinction must be made clear.
You do not have to invade with guns and bombs. You can do it with ideas and words. Already a lot of terrorist groups are getting recruits from Western worlds from mosques and madrassas they have in US, UK and wherever.
These people are trying to change the way we live our lives, like trying to get Sharia law in places. Or seeking influence in politics to change policies and whatnot.
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The only case where I would be the ostrich with my head in the sand is if you actually have the solution and I'm just being stupid and ignoring the solution. But that is not the case, because going to middle east and killing a mix of innocent and extremists is not the solution and would only make the matter worst, again that's just part the problem. |
I will be honest and say that I dont even know if the present tactics and strategy in Afghanistan will work in the end.
Because it's a complicated situation that no one really foresaw that will turn into quagmire it is right now.
But then, you have people like Taliban who don't obey the international laws and they dress like civillians and play hide and go seek in mosques, schools and whatnot. Because Taliban knows they can't win by fighting in an open battlefield. They tried that few years ago and got their asses handed to them.
So even with all that modern technology and because humans make mistakes, innocent people die, getting caught in the crossfire. And Taliban want more Afghan civillians to die, because that just gets them more recruits who are angry that Yanks killed his family, and don't understand why this happened.
Is getting out of Afghanistan going to make things better? I think not.
Once NATO leaves Afghanistan, Karzai govt is going to collapse because it's not strong enough to fight Taliban on its own. So Taliban will rule again and once more women will get treated like property. Girls can't go to school. Kids can't fly kites because it distracts them from learning the Quran. (I shit you not this has happened)
Michelle Brown, the widow of Warrant Officer Brown who died few weeks ago was asked what she thought of Prime Minister Stephen Harper saying recently that Western forces could not beat the insurgency in Afghanistan.
"We may not beat the Taliban, but there are lots of things in our lives we can't beat," she responded. "You can't beat crime, but do you give up? Do you stop? Absolutely not."
Because giving up Afghanistan now means evil people like Taliban get to rule and innocent people will suffer. And it means that we, as part of humanity, gave up on other fellow humans who need our help.
I immigrated to Canada from South Korea as a kid. In 1950, North Korea invaded South Korea and almost overran the entire country in few short weeks.
Heeding the call from the UN, 16 nations volunteered to send in combat soldiers to Korea. Other nations sent help otherwise. Many of these soldiers lost their lives fighting the communists from North Korea and China.
North Korea was ruled by an evil dictator who oppressed his people in such way that can only be described evil. South Korea was also ruled by a dictator who was pretty bad too, but just slightly better than Kim Il Sung of North Korea.
Eventually, after 3 years of fighting and lots of lives lost both military and civillian, a ceasefire was signed and peace returned to South Korea.
South Korea was suppose to be a democracy but military dictatorship ruled for many years and it wasn't until late 20th century that genuine free election was held. Now, South Korea is a wealthy nation and its citizens enjoy many rights and freedoms that Canadians enjoy today. But the struggle to reach that freedom was long and hard.
If it wasn't for those soldiers that came to Korea and gave their lives to fight for South Korea, I wouldn't be here today. My family would not have the choice to immigrate or enjoy any sort of freedom and liberty at all. So it is a real pleasure for me to meet Korean vets who did not have to put their lives on the line, but choose to do for a good cause.
I believe same situation is occuring in Afghanistan. That country is a shithole. 2nd poorest country in the world. Yet it used to be pretty decent, until Soviets invaded Afghanistan. Women were allowed to walk the streets without needing to cover in burqa. Kids could go to school without worrying about running into IEDs or mines.
I no longer consider 9/11 a primary reason why I think Canada should be involved in Afghanistan. I think Canada should be involved in Afghanistan because that country needs help against evil people.
It'll be many years before Afghanistan can take care of itself. But I think if that young girl in rural Afghanistan be able to go to school, get treatment at hospitals and be able to speak her mind without fear of retribution, and one day, be able to make her own decisions, all this sacrifice will be worth it.
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| quote: | Originally posted by chinamon
not true. i say "ugh"
but i am a tranny. |
| quote: | Originally posted by kotsy
lol colour me retarded |
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