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| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
You might want to go back to the start and scan the OP for any mention of the word "greatest". It actually says "top 10 of your best pure trance artists", so that throws your entire argument out of the window before it got started.
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Oh really? The title is actually "The Top 10 Of Trance Artists Of All Times" and his OP is "best artist", which has the same level of ambiguity and subjectivity as greatest. Anyway, that not my beef and you know it, so don't try it. Especially as I also have the ability to read but I don't see the word "pure" that you just tried to sneak in there to better your feeble attempt at defense of negating the whole conversation.
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
"Success" as you're using it (crowd sizes, records sold) is interchangeable with popularity, and jocks like Tiesto and Van Buuren are now just as successful as Oakenfold. Of course, acolytes of the Cult Of Oakey will always fall back on the fact he did these things a couple of years earlier than the modern contenders, as if that changes the issue at hand.
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No, that's just you're blinkered and limited view of the word success. I hate to break it to you but there are millions of sucessful people out there that you've never heard of nor ever will, but by all accounts (except the shallowest meaning when referenced against fame) they are hugely successful. Thats' EXACTLY why I brought up popularity as a exclusion from the criteria via naming Tiesto and Burren, but you seem to have got bad at reading all of a sudden.
This again as demonstarted by the fact i told you several times I don't really like trance that much and not an Oakenfold fan in any form. I again explained earlier that it's because of this objectivity that I can say he did it before the other later pretenders to the scene. Perfect and very apt example is Tiesto. As he was just beginning to come to real mainstream fame in the late 90's Oakenfold decides to get in to film scoring and move to LA.
Oh snap. tiesto recently annouced he loves LA, wants to move here and get in to film scoring. Do I really need to go on about this particular aspect of certain people doing certain things considerably before others?
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
You can throw this predictable "I was there you were [limp-wristed insult about being a small child]" bluster at me all you want, but the fact you went to some parties, took a lot of drugs and read Mixmag in the 90s doesn't mean that claiming Paul Oakenfold formed trance as it is today will suddenly become the truth. The great thing about a retrospective point of view, especially when you do your research, is you're not hindered by a subjective and nostalgic memory of being a bystander. You can actually hear the views of lots of people who were there, and more importantly look up records and dates on Discogs and piece together an accurate picture.I'd trust what a history professor has to say about World War 2 over how my grandmother remembers it.
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It's not limp wristed, it's just the truth: The main point is I can have both a perspective from having actually experienced AND a retrospective view by comparing what I actually saw and felt to what others have said and felt about the same period, something that you simply cannot do. Your views, which are highly confident and self righteous in their fervent accounts of things, make me laugh because they are nothing BUT retrospective or at best second hand accounts, probably from people you never even met.Whatever you may think I have the ability to to both think about what I heard and felt then and balance that against what was recorded. (Again that's why I don't believe your assertions that Oakey can't mix live, because I've seen him AND I have those essential mixes from those gigs, which match what I witnessed while there).
Your argument cuts both ways I'm afraid - That's the thing with retrospections - they rely purely on collection of data (which can be easily manipulated) and the narrative, direction and conclusions can be easily set by the compiler. WW2 is a great example actually - the winners wrote the history books and so much detail I hear from my grandfather about what really happened through the eyes of someone that lived through it, will never be heard because people don't want to hear about the atrocities, or the things that went embarrassingly wrong etc.
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Of course, you already know that PVD mixed the first ever commercially released trance compilation (http://www.discogs.com/Paul-van-Dyk.../release/437730) in 1993, when Oakenfold was busy cutting the edge by remixing "Things Can Only Get Better". But of course, that doesn't matter, because Oakenfold was playing stadiums supporting U2, right?
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No at that time he'd remixed their entire album following their request to do so, which is kind of ironic that you bring up because a lot of PVD's work in recent years has been influenced by the sound of U2 (by his own admission). At that time as well as working on Journeys by DJ 5, which was a classic trance compilation featuring tracks he'd played while on a global tour the year prior.
I'll concede that my berating of PVD as a suggestion was indeed off the mark, but still I don't feel that PVD has achieved anything that Oakenfold hasn't (in objective terms), whether you look at type of gigs or size, compilations, body of work, money earned, fame, DJ rankings, label owndership, whatever.
This is weird - if anything I prefer PVD over Oakenfold so I don't get why I'm still arguing. I think you bring it out in me jack.
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
The wrong way, then. |
No it's not and I just simply can't be bothered to explain why anymore.
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), I heard Oakenfold play a dozen times int the 90s (most of the essential mixes like creamfields etc) and have to say I never heard him clang once. In fact his set at Creamfields was one of the better trance sets I've heard. Maybe I got lucky, and I know there was a big period (mid to late 2000's where he really stopped giving a shit) but 12-0 is good enough for me to think he can mix and again, when I saw him in vegas last year he didn't fuck up a mix then either. 
