quote:

Originally posted by Seandroid Have you checked to see if you have Plug In Parameters set to on in Logic's Sample Accurate Automation drop down menu instead of just Volume, Pans & Sends?

This is just how PDC works in Logic. The key thing to understand is that the parameters ARE being delay compensated. The problem is that they are compensated by the total delay of the track, not the delay of each individual point in the chain. Consider the following.

SCENARIO A: All automation on track 1 will be delayed by 100ms. Thus, all automation on insert 2 will be accurate. However, all automation on insert 1 will be 100ms out.

Track 1 (100ms total latency)
- Insert 1 (zero latency)
- Insert 2 (100ms latency)

SCENARIO B: All automation on track 1 and bus 1 will be accurate.

Track 1 (zero total latency)
- Insert 1 (zero latency)
> Route to Bus 1

Bus 1 (100ms total latency)
- Insert 2 (100ms latency)

As for some plugins behaving strangely (eg. the gain plugin), I believe that's just down to how the plugin was written. For example, it might be quantising the automation differently so that it can snap to zero crossings or something.

One issue I forgot to mention is that the Logic UI itself is not delay compensated, so all the meters and the cursor can get out of sync with the audio. I'm not really worried about that though.

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quote:

Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox I've never had a problem with FLs tech support till this day. (I've actually never used it till this day)

quote:

Originally posted by floyd741 i think echosystm is a pretty cool guy. eh pwns robby rox and doesn't afraid of anything.

Last edited by echosystm on Mar-21-2014 at 03:05

logic just fucks up when you start using buses that are how do you say , like hierarchical.

There is a tool by expert sleepers i bough ta long time ago as I was using audio sends and inserts from a non digital source and it did it for you.

now i just use logic ad a mixing board with most of the action happening on other computers.

Logic is shit for so many reasons but i mean , live only 2 screens ....

Reaper is probably more accurate.

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old stuff from days gone by (2001-2004)
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If my understanding of the timing problems in Logic is correct, it seems pretty reasonable. Any issues you might encounter do have a workaround. You can't say the same for a lot of other DAWs.

Reaper is the most unusable pile of shit on the market. Total lack of UX sensibilities. I really liked it back at v1 or v2, but I won't touch it now regardless of how good it's technical features are.

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quote:

Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox I've never had a problem with FLs tech support till this day. (I've actually never used it till this day)

quote:

Originally posted by floyd741 i think echosystm is a pretty cool guy. eh pwns robby rox and doesn't afraid of anything.

a daw not supporting a line 6 interface

cubase diesnt work well with soundblaster.

___________________
"This is why Superman works alone." GC
old stuff from days gone by (2001-2004)
Mad For Brad's gay little contest

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm OK dudes... Here's a rundown on known timing issues (confirmed in a number of threads on GS and KVR). 1. Automation is not sample accurate, regardless of whether you have any plugins loaded or not. There is a delay field that has an arbitrary amount of ticks you can enter. The default is 5, but it generally needs to be about 9 to hit directly on beat (or slightly earlier). This has nothing to do with PDC and simply sets the base timing of the track.

This is now a known fact, so all you have to do is change the ticks to 9. It's crap, and I don't understand why logic don't do a tiny bug fix to compensate for this but at least it's a 10 second workaround and problem solved.

You're absolutely right on the rest of the bugs but it was recently found that Cubase also has a major problem:

Taken from another GS thread by TNM, they guy who really highlighted these problems in the first place:

quote:

I'm sadly starting to agree with you Joe.. But fwiw I have interesting news re cubase. It's automation is also not as perfect as I thought. When using an effect with latency, cubase is unable to automate that particular effect without the automation being offset by the latency. Unlike logic though it does not affect anything else or any other effect in the signal chain, only the one with the latency itself.. However, logic, on busses, automates plugins with latency perfectly, its only on tracks that things go awry. So logics actual playhead or as some call it spl might be out but on busses or master its automation is *not* no matter what plugins one uses. So it's really up to what one finds the most important. Since I'd like to use UAD plugins on busses, I think I'd rather logics way since automation will be spot on even though the spl will be a little funky. I have tested cubase to reveal this flaw with about twenty different plugins from differ manufacturers with latency just last night, cubase 7.05, and can definitely confirm it. Also spoke to a friend on windows (not bootcamp but a custom daw build) with c6.5 and he confirmed it. Now I am going to out studio one through the automation paces, and report back. I can't test pt as my demo expired and I don't own it. But I suppose it might be worth buying another ilok 2 and gettin another demo of it with a different ilok account for the sake of my testing, which I do somehow enjoy (I'm a nerd, I know). I don't think I can use s1 because although it has some mind blowing features, don't laugh, I find it hard to live without an event list. I am so old school, I am faster in logic and cubases event list than I often am in the other editors.

Last edited by DJ RANN on Mar-22-2014 at 18:45

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN You're absolutely right on the rest of the bugs but it was recently found that Cubase also has a major problem:

I pointed this out already. See below.

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm In Cuabse, all timing (automation, audio and tempo sync) is 100% sample accurate, except in one case; automation on a plugin with non-zero latency will be out by the latency of the plugin itself.

High latency plugins tend to be things I don't want to automate (distortion, amp sims, lin phase EQ etc), so the Cubase style PDC works better for me. However, Logic would generally be workable too. Like I said earlier, Logic isn't bad enough for me to want to go back to Cubase and deal with dongles and shit.

In doing this research, I've found something else that is interesting; all DAWs quantise automation to the block size it is sending to plugins. Thus, "sample accurate" is a complete misnomer; it can never be accurate down to a single sample, because all automation gets processed in blocks of samples (32, 64, 128, etc). What they mean by "sample accurate" is that it is accurate to a single sample PRIOR to quantisation. This has uncovered a whole new problem; DAWs with poor automation quantisation.

Although they both have good PDC (equivalent to Cubase), Reaper and Studio One both suffer from noticeable automation quantisation. In these DAWs, the block size is locked to the length of your audio buffer (eg. 512 samples). In Cubase and Logic, I believe the block size is locked to 32 samples, regardless of your interface settings. Thus, the snapping effect is much more noticeable in Reaper and Studio One than in Cubase and Logic. Frustratingly, Studio One on Windows allows you to set the block size to whatever you want (eg. 32), but this setting is not available on the OSX version!

On that note though, Logic snaps all automation to equivalent MIDI integers (0-127), so there is stepping between automation points. Other DAWs use the full precision of whatever is being automated.

One way or another, you can't win. Just gotta choose the thing that causes the least pain.

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quote:

Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox I've never had a problem with FLs tech support till this day. (I've actually never used it till this day)

quote:

Originally posted by floyd741 i think echosystm is a pretty cool guy. eh pwns robby rox and doesn't afraid of anything.

Last edited by echosystm on Mar-23-2014 at 01:52

Everything seems better on a mac i should make the switch one day but i just cant fathom it.but i know Logic is better than Cubase.

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