quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Do you think Iran's desire for nuclear weapons is for defensive or offensive purposes?

Comments about wanting to eradicate Israel would indicate offensive motives, no?

quote:

Originally posted by sasslife The racism card is an absolute load of bullsh*t.. Nobody has said that they cant have nuclear powered stations. There was an offer put on the table whereby Russia would supply them with the material but all the waste must be returned and accounted for. Why was it knocked back?? THEY WANT WEAPONS.

Iran is dependent on countries who import oil from them and than export it back to Iran in refined form. They have it but still they cant use it, they rely on other countries for its supply.

This Russia uranium enrichment scheme is exactly the same thing. They will be dependant on Russia all their lives for providing enriched uranium to them, to run their facilities and economy.

Things dont work like this. You are running a country and not a company where you outsource your processes to other countries.

Who will gaurantee them enriched uranium when Russia goes blank like they did with Ukraine recently? Or you want Iran to sit without electricity and energy till Russia starts enriching uranium again for them.

Iran wants to be independant, and have an independant and reliable source of long term energy demands which is growing everyday.

quote:

And as purple said, it is the most efficent way to generate power for industry.. What industries could the iranian regime be trying to support??

Size of UK:

total: 244,820 sq km
land: 241,590 sq km
water: 3,230 sq km

Size of France:

total: 547,030 sq km
land: 545,630 sq km
water: 1,400 sq km

Size for Germany:

total: 357,021 sq km
land: 349,223 sq km
water: 7,798 sq km


Area of Iran:

total: 1.648 million sq km
land: 1.636 million sq km
water: 12,000 sq km

Iran roughly adds up to UK, France and Germany combined...thats how big it is.

Iran is a big country; with good established industries. It share borders with 7 different countries.. and a good amount of trade is done (export-import) with other countries in Middle East. It has one of the best manufactoring base. Iran in Middle East is like what US is in West.

Its not like in Afhanistan, North Korea, or sactions crippled Iraq.

Last edited by Purple on Aug-24-2006 at 20:41

And hitting Iran will hit and effect whole of Middle East commercially.. it will bring down economy of many small countries in Middle East and hit directly their people lives too... like making everything very expensive.. bread, clothes, grocery etc.. basic amenities of life.. life is already hard after all this trash talk, it will just make things more tougher for these guys.. everyday life...

Land mass means squat other than they have that much more potential oil beneath them making them potentially that much more rich in a naturally occurring energy source. Ever heard of Alaska? Why don't they build some oil refineries? God knows it's a much safer business than building nuclear reactors.

Area of France: 260,558 sq. mi
Population of France: 63,587,700
GDP of France: $1.830 trillion
Per capita GDP: $29,316

Area of Germany: 137,858 sq mi
Population of Germany: 82,438,000
GDP of Germany: $2.522 trillion
Per Capita GDP: $30,579

Area of Japan: 145,883 sq mi
Population of Japan: 128,085,000
GDP of Japan: $3.911 trillion
Per capita GDP: $30,615

Area of Belgium: 11,787 sq mi
Population of Belgium: 10,419,000
GDP of Belgium: $316.2 billion
Per capita GDP: $29,707

Area of the U.S.: 3,718,695 sq mi
Population of U.S.: 299,102,661
GDP of U.S.: $12.28 trillion
Per Capita GDP: $41,399

Area of U.K.: 94,526 sq mi
Population of U.K.: 60,209,500
GDP of U.K.: $1.833 trillion
Per Capita GDP: $30,470

Area of Iran: 636,372 sq mi
Population of Iran: 68,467,413
GDP of Iran: $554.8 billion
Per Capita GDP: $7,980

I hardly think a lack of nuclear weapons is to blame for the severely deficient per capita numbers. Would that magically make Iran incredibly more productive? I'd think the ratioal thing would be to focus more on developing their education system and general infrastructure so as to improve productivity.

quote:

Originally posted by Purple Iran is dependent on countries who import oil from them and than export it back to Iran in refined form. They have it but still they cant use it, they rely on other countries for its supply. This Russia uranium enrichment scheme is exactly the same thing. They will be dependant on Russia all their lives for providing enriched uranium to them, to run their facilities and economy. Things dont work like this. You are running a country and not a company where you outsource your processes to other countries. Who will gaurantee them enriched uranium when Russia goes blank like they did with Ukraine recently? Or you want Iran to sit without electricity and energy till Russia starts enriching uranium again for them. Iran wants to be independant, and have an independant and reliable source of long term energy demands which is growing everyday.

You're explaining the exact same senario Japan was in right after WWII , and they were AT WAR with the U.S.
They import just about all their raw resources and they still became the world's second largest manufacurer in the world.
So why can't the Iranian government put their ego in check and let the world help them?

quote:

Size of UK: total: 244,820 sq km land: 241,590 sq km water: 3,230 sq km Size of France: total: 547,030 sq km land: 545,630 sq km water: 1,400 sq km Size for Germany: total: 357,021 sq km land: 349,223 sq km water: 7,798 sq km Area of Iran: total: 1.648 million sq km land: 1.636 million sq km water: 12,000 sq km Iran roughly adds up to UK, France and Germany combined...thats how big it is. Iran is a big country; with good established industries. It share borders with 7 different countries.. and a good amount of trade is done (export-import) with other countries in Middle East. It has one of the best manufactoring base. Iran in Middle East is like what US is in West. Its not like in Afhanistan, North Korea, or sactions crippled Iraq. And hitting Iran will hit and effect whole of Middle East commercially.. it will bring down economy of many small countries in Middle East and hit directly their people lives too... like making everything very expensive.. bread, clothes, grocery etc.. basic amenities of life.. life is already hard after all this trash talk, it will just make things more tougher for these guys.. everyday life...

This just solidifies my arguement about hydroelectric dams.
They obviously have the space; hell even solar farms would go nicely there.
Nuclear options are out of the question until their leadership does a 180 or changes...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

They dont have any rivers to build dams on, and terrain is mountaneous and rugged, not practical for solar farms.. solar panels BTW suck; they need power for big factories.. not lighting bulbs at home.. you need steady reliable source for that...

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Comments about wanting to eradicate Israel would indicate offensive motives, no?

Ok so you think that if Iran had nuclear missiles they would launch them at Israel? Can you think of any problems that might cause Iran? That, you know, might make them not want to do that?

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Ok so you think that if Iran had nuclear missiles they would launch them at Israel?

Yup.

quote:

Can you think of any problems that might cause Iran? That, you know, might make them not want to do that?

Can we have this in English?

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

Problems? A couple of UN resolutions isnt exactly considered problematic for Iran. Hell, Israel returning fire with Nukes of its own and completly obliteratiing Iran doesent even trouble them too much.

quote:

Originally posted by dennis Problems? A couple of UN resolutions isnt exactly considered problematic for Iran. Hell, Israel returning fire with Nukes of its own and completly obliteratiing Iran doesent even trouble them too much.

And you're basing that on...?

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Yup

And where does MAD enter your theory? In fact, can you give me the pros and cons for Iran, assuming your theory is correct?

quote:

Can we have this in English?

Sorry I forgot you might read that. How exactly can I simplify that quote so that even you can understand it? Hmmmm...ok...

What problems would Iran encounter if they launched nuclear bombs at Israel...and do you think those problems (assuming you think there are any?) would deter Iran from pursuing such an act? (note the word "deter")