quote:

Originally posted by DJ El Kay Dee i have never coughed due to smoking. ive know smokers whove lived till the age of 90. and no im not trying to justify smoking.

agreed, not all people are affected in the same way. But is it not fair to say that there are more immediate health effects which people here are not taking into account?

how long have you been smoking? I have never actually met a person before who did not have some sort of lung problems with regular smoking.

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Originally posted by Orko agreed, not all people are affected in the same way. But is it not fair to say that there are more immediate health effects which people here are not taking into account? how long have you been smoking? I have never actually met a person before who did not have some sort of lung problems with regular smoking.

6 years and thats why its hard for me to go cold turkey...ive cut down now from a pack a day to a pack every 2-3 days....

theres a reason why we who chainsmoke cant quit in an instant and it aitn cos of the habit of holding a cigarette...its cos of the change in our metabolism and lack of nicotine produced by our brain (yes everyones prain produces nicotine and this gets reduced/stopped whne the body finds another form of deriving it)

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Originally posted by Jayx1 Lets talk about the social rights you have in Europe or south america and the freedom to do as you please. For example, the government does not tell you at which hour you can and cannot drink. This is just one example. Please, do some travelling and experience what its like to have a beer as the sun comes up on a patio next to the beach. Or to enjoy the simple pleasure of being able to run a business without worrying who is going to sue you next for their own stupidity. You think we have freedom here? No, we only THINK we do... You picked the wrong example to use here my friend.... PS: how are seatbelt laws in EVERYONE's interest and please do not use the health care argument because that will in essence be a defacto arguement against public health care as far as im concerned.

No, I'm not world travelled, but I'm quite aware of more lenient gov't restrictions in European countries, for example. I didn't say Canada was the *most* liberal society in the world, but you've conveniently insinuated that's what I'm saying. Compared to ALL countries, we have it pretty good. Just like compared to ALL countries, you argue that overcrowding isn't so bad here.

Why can't I use health costs in the seatbelt argument? I will also use insurance costs. Seatbelts clearly reduce injury in car crashes. A reduction in injuries reduces healthcare costs which in turn reduces insurance claim amounts. A reduction in injuries makes people in general "happier"...ie. can you really suggest that everyone's extra "happiness" that would be gained by not having to wear seatbelts offsets the harm that results from additional injury and expense that would follow?

Really the argument comes down to this:

1. We both want the freedom to go where we choose and do what we choose in order that we may enjoy ouselves. For the most part, our society's laws grant us that right on the condition that in the pursuit of our own enjoyment, we are not directly infringing upon the ability of others to similarly enjoy themselves in whatever manner they choose.
2. I would argue that smokers unnecessarily inhibit or restrict my ability to enjoy myself in public...ie. their action *directly* and unavoidably results in a decrease in my enjoyment due to secondhand smoke which harmful to my health.
3. Me going to a club and drinking, doing drugs, whatever, does NOT directly impact your ability to attend and enjoy yourself. If I'm drunk or high, you can essentially ignore me. I can't ignore secondhand smoke.

So given that...how can you justify that your perceived right (which it is not) to smoke supercedes my right to enjoy myself? As I said, and you neglected to address, many other things are "legal" whose practice is restricted for adults, such as consuming alcohol and having sex. It can easily be argued that two adults having sex in the middle of a club poses far less "harm" to anyone else than secondhand smoke, yet few people are up in arms that everyone can't have sex in the middle of the dancefloor

So without pointing to other countries...without throwing stats around...just address what I've asked...why does your right to enjoy yourself supercede my right to enjoy myself when your actions harm me and mine do not harm you?

Last edited by MarkT on May-25-2004 at 18:26

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Originally posted by MarkT So given that...how can you justify that your perceived right (which it is not) to smoke supercedes my right to enjoy myself?

It's called, "peculiarly convenient"...

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Originally posted by PartEgurl basically, you are taking away MY freedom when you smoke inside !!!

You also have the right to decide whether or not you want to enter a smoking establishment, nobody is forcing you to go to a club.

You also have the right to decide whether you wish to cater to smokers or non smokers.

All these rights will now be decided for you on behalf of the state starting on June 1.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT why does your right to enjoy yourself supercede my right to enjoy myself when your actions harm me and mine do not harm you?

It doesnt. You have the choice whether or not you wish to enter the establishment. A better approach would be for the non smokers to open their own nightclub with no smoking in order to provide a choice for people and then let the market decide.

Wouldnt that be fair???


Oh and your insurance arguement still uses healthcare as a crutch and now you are talking about passing laws to protect people's happiness? Oh man...

Smokers pay higher premiums with private insurance. So its their choice. You smoke you pay and if you dont you pay less. This is a much better approach than "i have to pay your health costs so im banning you from smoking" and same thing goes with seat belts.

i so agree with the removal of serving hours, but even moreso, the public drinking
Watcing the sunrise with a pint is great , but it's even better if it only cost you 25 cents at the local store!!!!
Why cant we have a beer in hand on a hot summer day while shopping on Queen St.!!!!

ah, to dream the impossible dream....

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 You also have the right to decide whether or not you want to enter a smoking establishment, nobody is forcing you to go to a club. You also have the right to decide whether you wish to cater to smokers or non smokers. All these rights will now be decided for you on behalf of the state starting on June 1.

you have the right to stay at home and smoke...

you have the right not to enter a non-smoking establishment, just as we have the right to enter a smoking club.

you also have the right to work in an industry which does not benefit from smokers, or suffer from lack there of.

No one told you to work in a club/bar/restuarant, just like no body has instructed us to go to a club.

remember people are not being told they cannot smoke. Is the gov outlawing smoking altogether? No they are restricting where you can do it. Just like driving a car. Please read my above post.

any retort Jayx1? or are you going to ignore my points, as you do in every thread?

Last edited by Orko on May-25-2004 at 22:02

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Originally posted by UWO Tranceaddict Why cant we have a beer in hand on a hot summer day while shopping on Queen St.!!!! ah, to dream the impossible dream....

nothing's impossible! just put it into a different container (btw -not a brown bag!! LOL! ... hmm the good old uni days ...)

ahh please just get on with it! i'm a smoker ..and i'm not about to give it up. i know i will one day but i haven't had enough of it yet! yes, it p*** me off cos i won't be able to smoke watching my favourite dj's spin or over a drink ... but, i admit, in the long run, it is for the best. ... ehmmm, what's the substitute?

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Originally posted by disko-kandi ... ehmmm, what's the substitute?

snort&sniff?

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r snort&sniff?

pop & hop?

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