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| quote: | Originally posted by Nite-Mer
All I will say is that I understand your beliefs and respect them. However, there are still debates between Christians and Evolutionists and they continue, because there aren't really winners in the debates. It is impossible for anyone to know for sure one way or the other. You may have scientific evidence that you believe, and I may believe that God is out there. My intangible beliefs are based on abrupt changes in my life, based on my levels of commitment to God. If you aren't a Christian you can't understand that feeling and the power that comes over you. I am not asking you to change your mind. You make your own choices. But even though you can't see the wind, you can feel it. I am certain based on the things I've felt. I guarantee a lot of you will think that's stupid. I don't really care. I don't judge anyone for their beliefs and I'm not trying to judge anyone for having different beliefs. I'll leave that to others. |
I don't think that is stupid. It just sounds to me that deep inside you want to believe. When you really want to believe, you'll interpret the things around you and feel whatever way makes it easiest to believe. I appreciate that you respect my beliefs, and I apologize that I cannot genuinely do the same. Although I will always respect your right to believe what you wish, I can't help but hold the opinion that the choice you make is an unhealthy one.
| quote: | | But there are a lot of predictions in the bible that have come true, everyone acknowledges Jesus's existence and death, so the predictions about him can't be dispelled by saying it's too long ago and he might not have existed. To me there is plenty of compelling evidence, but I don't blame you for feeling differently. |
Now why did you have to go and open that can of worms on us. No, not everyone acknowledges Jesus' existence and death. I happen to be one of the few who don't. Rather than repost everything, I'll just link you to the appropriate discussion:
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...us&pagenumber=5
Starting at the bottom of the page. You'll see that no one made a serious effort to address any of the problems confronting a historical Christ other than point #8. You're more than welcome to try your hand at it, if you like, but once again I think this is a matter that just comes down to faith: you either have it, or you don't.
The Bible has as many contradictions as it does accurate predictions. It may be easy to have faith in the bible, but it seems difficult to me to examine it objectively and come to the conclusion that it's a reliable historical source.
| quote: | | Another interesting thing is that Mt. Helens erupted leaving behind many thousands of sedimentary layers. If a forty day forty night flood happened proportionally larger amounts of layers could be formed in places. Like the Grand Canyon per se. If some of the stories are true maybe they do explain some of the things we see, rather than just assuming it takes one year for each layer, etc. etc. Maybe the amount of knowledge we have accumulated in the small amount of time on this earth has lead us to accept theories as truths, and maybe our whole basis for some of them aren't true. In my mind, science has a lot of gaps as well. |
Agreed on the gaps of science. It may surprise you, but I debate scientists about as often as I debate theists, and I'm often as highly skeptical of some scientific "knowledge" as I am of religious doctrine.
With regards to sedimentation and a long flood: if it were just sedimentary layers you'd be spot on. But in application layers have a variety of distinct characteristics which could only have formed over a longer period of time. This site does a much better job explaining it than I could:
http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/ath...ark.html#COLUMN
| quote: | | I studied Physical Anthropology in College and found it funny that one of the explanations for a lack in evidence of intermediary species for evolution was that some times are good for fossilization and some are not so good. What a weak explanation for a lack of data. Or pictures of a whole skeletal system of several bones (50-100) with only three that were actually found. I take that as a leap of faith. |
I agree that it is problematic. While it could be true that some periods of time facilitate fossilization and others do not, it nevertheless leaves a lot of questions unanswered. Anyone who tells you that they are certain that evolution is the source of all biodiversity on Earth is definitely reaching IMO.
I think the fundamental problem here is that you obviously have very strong feelings about your beliefs but from my point of view, they are no different than the feelings which lead people to join doomsday cults or to become suicide bombers. I suppose my question is: do you at least acknowledge that there are thousands if not millions or billions of other people who feel the exact same thing for a different and mutually-exclusive religion? And, if so, that at least some of you, and probably most of you, must be wrong in spite of these feelings?
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