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venomX
ISO salty whenches



Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Vancouver, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Trancer-X
Well, you guys always seem to act like what I say is irrelevant because I'm not an "expert" but when I post information from "experts" you say that all I do is copy and paste.

Study the history of our central banking system and you'll see that the last central bank that we had was basically run by the same people. Those very same people basically conspired to form a new central bank which is now the Federal Reserve. They met in secrecy and drafted their plans but then publically made it appear as though they opposed them in order to make people think that it was for the good of the country.

No, of course they didn't have any ulterior motives.

BTW - not everyone was oblivious to it, though. Congressman Lindbergh knew what was up.


I do believe Occ's post covered the paranoia present in many politicians at the time, so posting more and more quotes of politicians of that time doesn't advance your argument. After all, Occ's post points to there being widespread distrust of the banking sector in that particular point in time. Knowing this we can understand why so many politicians where so distrustful even though the wide distrust was due to frequent bank runs that bankrupt banks (and I am aware of your theory that bank runs were perpetrated by big bankers to benefit, etc.. there no proof so i take it as speculation).

Now apart from that, Occ's post also covers the meeting in secrecy and then putting on a show. It was a ploy to get the bill passed, we are in agreement regarding that. Now, a bit of smoke and mirrors does not logically lead to a widespread conspiracy or to it being wrongful or illicit in nature. Considering the widespread distrust in bankers, the bill would have not passed. And considering that this bill WAS useful and probably is part of why the US enjoys a strong economy today, I think your unsubstantiated speculation is undue.


___________________
Poetry>Byron//Blog>TheMean
quote:
Orbax
At that point you kind of crossed the rubicon and you might as well lay siege to Rome

Old Post Nov-01-2007 23:14  Dominican Republic
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala

quote:
Originally posted by venomX
I do believe Occ's post covered the paranoia present in many politicians at the time, so posting more and more quotes of politicians of that time doesn't advance your argument. After all, Occ's post points to there being widespread distrust of the banking sector in that particular point in time. Knowing this we can understand why so many politicians where so distrustful even though the wide distrust was due to frequent bank runs that bankrupt banks (and I am aware of your theory that bank runs were perpetrated by big bankers to benefit, etc.. there no proof so i take it as speculation).

Now apart from that, Occ's post also covers the meeting in secrecy and then putting on a show. It was a ploy to get the bill passed, we are in agreement regarding that. Now, a bit of smoke and mirrors does not logically lead to a widespread conspiracy or to it being wrongful or illicit in nature. Considering the widespread distrust in bankers, the bill would have not passed. And considering that this bill WAS useful and probably is part of why the US enjoys a strong economy today, I think your unsubstantiated speculation is undue.


I think you're misperceiving the whole issue but I don't have the time to elaborate upon it at this very moment. I'll be back, though, so don't worry

Old Post Nov-02-2007 10:44  United States
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venomX
ISO salty whenches



Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Vancouver, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Trancer-X
I think you're misperceiving the whole issue but I don't have the time to elaborate upon it at this very moment. I'll be back, though, so don't worry


I will be waiting


___________________
Poetry>Byron//Blog>TheMean
quote:
Orbax
At that point you kind of crossed the rubicon and you might as well lay siege to Rome

Old Post Nov-02-2007 19:35  Dominican Republic
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala

quote:
Originally posted by venomX
I will be waiting


Basically (for the sake of brevity), there was a lot of paranoia at the time and many people blamed the very same bankers (such as Paul Warburg, the architect of the Federal Reserve System and agent to both the Rothschild's and the Rockefeller's) and for good reason, they were a bunch of greedy, scheming elitists whose goals include the consolidation of world power.

There's no point in trying to gloss it over.

Paul Warburg also set up the American I.G. (I.G. Chemical Corporation), the American counterpart to Germany's I.G. Farben.

The Nazi's couldn't have waged war without them.

quote:
"Farben was Hitler and Hitler was Farben."

- Sen Homer Truett Bone, to Senate Committee on Military Affairs, June 4, 1943

Last edited by Trancer-X on Nov-03-2007 at 08:27

Old Post Nov-02-2007 20:01  United States
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala

AMERICAN DUPLICITY

By Richard D. Caccavale

January 12, 2005
NewsWithViews.com

Not since the Vietnam War has there been such division amongst Americans. Politically, we are a polarized populous with many people entrenched in either the liberal or conservative camp. But, neither term presently defines the myriad views spawned from so many opposing needs and wants. Economically, the ideology is equally diverse, as the debate continues between Keynesian and Austrian theorists. In this regard, central bankers pedal their fiat currency wares to the applause of profligate politicians and Wall Street brokerages, while worried contrarian investors scurry to gather nuggets of gold and other hard assets, in anticipation of an ensuing, bitterly cold, financial winter. Nothing is apparent or black and white, as the complexity of issues confounds the deepest of thinkers, and previous certainties are rendered obscure, morphing to gray, as if by design.

Worrisome, is that the “gradualism” espoused by the Fabian Society is having effect. In the comprehensive work from G. Edward Griffin, The Creature from Jekyll Island, he has delineated how the Fabian Socialist, John Maynard Keynes, dominated the meeting which launched the plan for the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and World Bank during the 1944 Bretton Woods Conference. The stated mission of this meeting was the formation of a worldwide central bank which could stabilize exchange rates. However, the unannounced plan was to eliminate the world’s gold exchange standard with a politically manipulated paper currency, and for the establishment of world socialism. Griffin explains how the American version of the Fabians is the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) and together with our Federal Reserve; they have worked in concert toward implementing the Fabian plan for establishing their socialistic new world order.

It is so apropos that the Fabian’s chose for their crest a wolf in sheep’s clothing, while their mascot is the turtle to symbolize the gradual reshaping of the world. Purposeful deception and perseverance are always effective tools of war. But, unlike the Fabians, our own Fed and CFR have no such icons to display their real intent. If they were to consider a mascot, it should be the octopus, so as to denote how their slimy tentacles are at work everywhere! And, a piranha for the way they use inflation to strip the flesh from the bone of savers, the elderly, and entire middle class.

In this connection, they interfere in both political and economic matters, which explain why proven fundamentals are being circumvented and replaced with new era concepts of dubious worth. Appropriately, the Alice in Wonderland rabbit hole has served as a symbolism for the many market disconnects which now regularly occur. In addition to equity and housing bubbles, there are also many counter indications of monetary axioms, and highly suspicious trading of both gold and treasury bonds. Repeatedly, we are bombarded with mixed messages such as: debts don’t matter, derivatives are useful tools, a strong dollar policy, dollar debasement is good, no signs of inflation, growing concern of deflation, job numbers are up, layoffs continue, peace loving nation, preventive war. And, we are expected to make sense of the discord that they represent. This dichotomy becomes even more blurred as political and economic rhetoric conceals a hidden agenda and purposely misleads people to believe that prosperity can be obtained through debt.

Concomitantly, their brainwashing suggests that you should borrow against your home and buy whatever it is that you desire. This is purportedly offset by a sufficient and ever occurring increase in the value of the home, which will allow you to repeat this process indefinitely. Live for the day with no regard for tomorrow is a practice evidenced by both the nation and its people. This highly flawed marketing scheme has replaced the usual sound dictums for prudence, as Americans save essentially nothing while their debt soars to record highs. Moreover, it is through this exact same process of perpetual debt that the IMF conquers third world nations, which pay only the outrageous interest without ever impacting the principal. So, can there be any doubt what our addiction to cheap money and resultant indebtedness is doing to our independence and self reliance?

In this transition toward neo fascism and a new world order, it was necessary for us to lose our greatest protector of freedom, the press. Heretofore independent, mighty and feared; it now stands by tacit, while completing its own metamorphosis to being a public relations lackey and good corporate citizen. This enables the stew of disingenuous information to be consumed by a non suspecting flock. And, because it suits the taste of an ideology that they were previously spoon-fed, it is ingested with sufficient quantity to nourish a centrally planned development. The fact that our societal leaders misrepresent themselves, and that the press is no longer on guard, does not bode well for us as a free civilization. When a republic accepts propaganda as truth, the road to fascism is an accelerated bobsled ride! When free market capitalists accept market intervention and manipulation as a matter of course, then corporate fascism is already in place! This is a time for Socratic questioning, even though the political nihilists will characterize it as unpatriotic.

The contradictions amongst us which need inspection are staggering. Do we make war because we are imperial militarists, seeking an endless supply of petroleum for our gluttonous monster truck society, and bulging military? Or, are we freedom loving liberators dedicated to improving quality of life and creating democracy in oppressed third world countries? Was Iraq’s tyranny worse than that in the Sudan? What value did we place upon Iraq’s strategic location to Caspian Sea energy reserves, and the need to withdraw our military base from Saudi Arabia, as they feared their own civil war? How much emphasis was placed upon our economic recession and the stimulatory fiscal benefits of war? We have witnessed questionable reasons for war before, with President Johnson’s Gulf of Tonkin, and now with President Bush’s claims of weapons of mass destruction. Our previous response was outrage and civil protest, but now we have acquiesced with only a smattering of discourse.

Contributing greatly to our astronomical debt, our tax dollars are continually incinerated to support this war of dubious need. A consequence of our debtor ways is that we now stand at the threshold of losing the US Dollar’s status as the world’s reserve currency. During the past three years the dollar has declined in value thirty percent. But, our Treasury Secretary, John Snow, will only say, “We have a strong dollar policy.” What does that mean? He is adamant in not explaining any further. There is never further inquiry to his repeated nebulous retort. But, I suspect that there will be when oil is priced in euros, and we realize what a great benefit we enjoyed when the dollar was king. Other nations cry out that we need to intervene in the dollar’s decline, and the Treasury Secretary repeatedly claims that there will be no form of intervention as this administration’s policy is to let the free market determine the value of the buck. But then, our President, George Bush, slips during an interview and indicates that the Federal Reserve has just increased the interest rate one quarter of a percent to help resist the dollars decline.

Which are we to believe? Federal Reserve Chairman, Alan Greenspan, always sidesteps such questions and refers them to the Treasury Department, because it is their domain. And the game of shunning responsibility continues with impervious stonewalling and doublespeak. Like greased pigs in mud, our leaders avoid the grip of a question, while enjoying a gluttonous appetite for more debt. And, as the currency debasement game of ‘beggar thy neighbor’ escalates, what additional level of obfuscation and official silence might we victims of diminished purchasing power anticipate? When did the Treasury and Federal Reserve become covert operations? Why are we not entitled to know our fiscal fate?

The clandestine nature of the Fed and Treasury is at its absolute best when it comes to the manipulation of the price of gold bullion. This deception has become reasonably well known in financial circles, but remains obscure to the general public. Our once great nation, which prides itself upon the transparency of its government, is the leader of the western world’s central banks in the covert practice of leasing out the citizens’ gold bullion, which is supposedly held in reserve. The leased gold is then sold in a manner commensurate with price fixing, while remaining on record as an asset, since banks count loans that way. This has an impact upon the value of the US dollar through an inverse relationship with the long bond. (This practice was originally implemented by Treasury Secretary Robert E. Rubin, and is based upon a theory of Lawrence Summers).

This historic fraud of biblical proportions is always denied; yet, as is the case of all crimes there is trace evidence left behind. The brilliant and historic work done by GATA (Gold Anti Trust Action Committee) has revealed this chicanery, but their efforts to alert the populous fall upon deaf ears. In the face of overwhelming evidence, corroborated by official documents; GATA’s continual questions to respective authorities on this nefarious practice are met with denials of any such activity and curt refusals to discuss it. When did we, as a self governing people, come to accept “No Comment”, as a measure of accountability from our elected and appointed government officials?

Where within the laws of our nation does the federal government acquire the right to violate its own Anti Trust Laws? The Federal Reserve’s price capping actions, through its Bullion Banks, clearly violates the intent and spirit of both the Sherman and Clayton Acts! If it is not felonious behavior, then why won’t they admit its practice and discuss it? Legal actions by government are not relegated to the dark silent cellar of denial and confidentiality! This cartel of financial institutions acts in unison to impact bullion pricing, and steal from unsuspecting investors with impunity! How can either the President or Treasury Secretary speak the term “free market” while leading this fraud? The original creation of an Exchange Stabilization Fund was solely for the purpose of preventing a financial crisis, and not as the standard operating procedure for our entire economic policy! However, it is now apparent that the ESF and the Working Group on Financial Markets are used as the everyday tools of a plutocratic government manipulating their desired end result!

Moreover, where is the outrage for this swindle? If one is caught with their hand in the cookie jar, and the cookie jar is Fort Knox, it deserves an explanation! Your employer would not tolerate “No Comment” from you, and you would not accept it from your children. So, why do we acquiesce to such stonewalling by the guardians of our fate? Why can’t the citizenry have a fair accounting of their gold bullion reserve? When did such fundamental measurements of a nation’s economic health become classified information? Have we not learned anything from our own history and the history of the world? In a country with myriad corporate scandals on the order of Enron, Adelphia, and Global Crossing, which implicated even the auditors as part of the fraud; is it reasonable to presume matters of a nation’s fiscal solvency without any accounting? Where is the news coverage by our guardian, the financial media? When the Russian Central Bank recently corroborated GATA’s conclusions, and even provided a translation for the press, our financial media completely ignored it. How can a historic break from silence by a central bank about the activities of these clandestine institutions be shunned by the press? Can the fact that all media is conglomerate owned and has a corporate agenda, be the reason for their united lack of interest? Why is it our elected representatives will implement impeachment proceedings for a President, who lies to cover up illicit sex, but will just shrug their shoulders and yawn when our nation’s entire gold reserve and economic future is at stake?

These issues of contradictions and duplicity go on and on. Unfortunately, they are apparent within all aspects of our government. Does our Food and Drug Administration outlaw less expensive imported drugs from Canada to protect the health of our citizenry, or are they adhering to a mandate prescribed by the giant pharmaceutical industry? What do we have to show for with the billions of dollars spent by the Department of Homeland Defense besides a child-like, useless color coding terrorist alert system, and intrusive full body searches of haggard airline passengers? How can these searches protect us from terrorist acts, while our boarders and shipyards remain porous and unchecked? Or, does this personal intrusion portend both future police conduct and an additional loss of freedom? What sense does it make that more than twenty thousand non-Mexican illegal aliens were released after arrest, because there was no detention facility to house them? Where has this money been spent? A recent breaking news story revealed misuse of funding by the Transportation Security Administration, which spent $500,000 for an employee banquet and gave eighty-eight senior managers bonuses of $16,477 each. These government spending abuses are flagrant and out of control!

Should we criticize Russia’s return to a centralized, authoritarian government, when our own Executive Branch becomes more powerful and unilateral, and cloaks itself behind the Patriot Act? Should we believe that the outsourcing of jobs is a progressive economic sign, and we just need to acquire different training to assure prosperity? Or, should we prepare for an economic collapse, because no nation can survive with ever increasing trade and budget deficits? Should we believe that our leaders are really concerned with public education when they cut national funding, and the State of California has an illiteracy rate on par with some third world nations? Should we believe what we are told about the attacks of 9/11, when extensive evidence about demolition charges for building seven and lack of plane debris at the pentagon indicate something quite different? A commission reported its findings and the matter was officially put to rest, but nagging questions remain. When did the public’s right to know get circumvented with the abusive use of “confidential”, as more aspects of governing are described as classified under the auspices of national security?

This prevailing obscurity must be met with intellectual curiosity and expressed outrage. More of us must shine a light upon this fog of vagueness which encompasses our political and economic institutions. The examples of contradictions are endless and our collective memory is weak. History does repeat itself. We must devise the means to obviate governmental falsehoods. In this regard, the internet can be our salvation. Let the Diogenes amongst us lead the way. The greatest gift we can share with one another is truth, or at least its relentless pursuit. Demystify the layers of doublespeak and deceit with accountability. Question authority often!

This duplicity is a sad commentary upon our Republic and insult to those who have sacrificed for our freedom and representation. As Nelson Hultberg explains in his great book, “Breaking the Demopublican Monopoly,” people are oblivious and may not listen or unite right now. But, once the charade of economic falsehood implodes, there will be a search for new leaders, as people wonder how it happened. That is when we must be ready with our explanations and solutions, which would include a gold oriented monetary system, the abolishment of the Federal Reserve, and the elimination of the Internal Revenue Service.

Imagine the standard of living this nation could be enjoying without the 1663% inflation that the Federal Reserve has caused since its inception. Additionally, there would be a balanced budget because it is only with a fiat currency that money which did not exist could be appropriated. No more ballooning government payroll, wasteful pork barrel projects, or unnecessary wars, as checks and balances would be in place with a precious metal based currency. Moreover, a simplified flat tax really needs no explanation, as the benefits to having a level and fair playing field are obvious to all that don’t cheat through the use of off-shore holdings and corporate accountants. The collapse of our capitalistic system is already well underway, and the measures they will employ to keep their power will surely consist of authoritarian, corporate fascism led by a central bank. At least that’s what history tells us it will most probably be. We can not let that happen!

Richard D. Caccavale joined the New Haven Police Department where he rose up through the ranks to a command staff position. He retired as the City's Chief Investigator after a thirty year career. Presently retired and living in the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains in Western North Carolina with his wife, GinGer, he has become active as a trader of precious metals and commodities.

That pursuit has resulted in extensive research of both geopolitical and economic practices of governments, as they relate to the financial markets. In 2002 he became a member of GATA (Gold Anti Trust Action Committee) and is a contributing writer to their founder's website, LeMetropole Cafe. E-Mail: [email protected]

Old Post Nov-05-2007 20:30  United States
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala

quote:
This prevailing obscurity must be met with intellectual curiosity and expressed outrage. More of us must shine a light upon this fog of vagueness which encompasses our political and economic institutions. The examples of contradictions are endless and our collective memory is weak. History does repeat itself. We must devise the means to obviate governmental falsehoods. In this regard, the internet can be our salvation. Let the Diogenes amongst us lead the way. The greatest gift we can share with one another is truth, or at least its relentless pursuit. Demystify the layers of doublespeak and deceit with accountability. Question authority often!


That paragraph was the reason why I felt compelled to post that. No matter what the rest of that particular author's message says, that single paragraph encapsulates much of what we should be doing anyhow.

Old Post Nov-05-2007 20:45  United States
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Lebezniatnikov
Stupidity Annoys Me



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: DC

quote:
Originally posted by Capitalizt
I didn't expect him to actually read it, but a few days later I got a personal response from him. He was very grateful and promised me he would never give up the fight for liberty. He didn't need to go through the trouble of thanking me personally...but he really wanted to. That shows the type of character he has.




Lol, that used to be my job when I worked on the Hill. Drafting letters and using the autopen.


___________________

Old Post Nov-06-2007 01:54  United Nations
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Lebezniatnikov
Stupidity Annoys Me



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: DC

quote:
Originally posted by Trancer-X
Study the history of our central banking system and you'll see that the last central bank that we had was basically run by the same people. Those very same people basically conspired to form a new central bank which is now the Federal Reserve. They met in secrecy and drafted their plans but then publically made it appear as though they opposed them in order to make people think that it was for the good of the country.



Substitute the word "Constitution" every time you write the phrase "central bank" and you get another true story. The fact that they improved upon the old system doesn't really prove anything. The Constitution was written as a second draft of the Articles of Confederation, which had been written by most of the same people. Are you now going to make the argument that the Constitution was conceived as a mechanism for power-grabbing as well?


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Old Post Nov-06-2007 01:56  United Nations
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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas

quote:
Substitute the word "Constitution" every time you write the phrase "central bank" and you get another true story. The fact that they improved upon the old system doesn't really prove anything. The Constitution was written as a second draft of the Articles of Confederation, which had been written by most of the same people. Are you now going to make the argument that the Constitution was conceived as a mechanism for power-grabbing as well?


I think you've taken both out of context. The government improving upon the law of the land, and private bankers meeting to hammer out a plan to control issued currency shouldn't be compared as if they're equal.


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Old Post Nov-06-2007 02:52  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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pkcRAISTLIN
arbiter's chief minion



Registered: Jul 2002
Location:

and we're all still waiting for krypton's response to occrider.

do these CTers really have a commitment to "the truth" or do they merely enjoy posting their own ideas whilst ignoring any dissenting voices? tsk tsk.


___________________

Old Post Nov-06-2007 03:08  Australia
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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas

quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
and we're all still waiting for krypton's response to occrider.

do these CTers really have a commitment to "the truth" or do they merely enjoy posting their own ideas whilst ignoring any dissenting voices? tsk tsk.


What, are you waiting for me to copy and paste a book? I told OCC to summarize it or provide a shorter refute of the scenario of Jekyll Island I posted which was much much shorter.

You've managed to remain a sideline cheerleader in this whole debate, so I'de be nice if you could contribute something other than the pom-pom cheerleading for OCC. If you have an argument, lay it out, otherwise, once again, put up or shut up...


___________________

Old Post Nov-06-2007 03:22  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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Lebezniatnikov
Stupidity Annoys Me



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: DC

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
I think you've taken both out of context. The government improving upon the law of the land,



Improving upon the law of the land? For everyone? Or for themselves? Why do you think the Constitution was so controversial? You do realize, don't you, that the Federalist Papers were written because it looked as if the Constitution was headed for the trash. It was written illegally, and did not serve to improve the lives of many average Americans at the time. Is it a good document? History says yes. But at the time, that was very much in question. I really suggest, as a constitutionalist, that you take a political theory course that delves into the formation of the actual Constitution you always cite.


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Old Post Nov-06-2007 03:30  United Nations
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