quote:

Originally posted by Shade I know what the definition of adaptation is. I've come to terms with people pirating (as I've already said), there's not much that can be done about it. I simply said I have an issue with ridiculous justifications. This isn't something that is exactly 'adaptable' though, only something that artists can bear with. An empty suggestion like what you made is like me saying "Well... the economy's in recession? Fix it! How? I don't know!"

dude, there are plenty of producers making lots of money. at the same time there are people who work a hell of alot harder and get paid pennies.

sometimes life just isn't fair. times have changed and the industry eventually will too. this isn't justification for stealing, it's just a fact.

besides i think someone mentioned already that many producers are now dj'ing because producing just isn't as profitable. they have adapted in order to make more money from their art. that's what this is all about, making more money.


maybe part of the problem is that many of us have put artists on such high pedestals that their product became overvalued. now that information is so easily accessible/shared the true value is being revealed...? after all, in essence music is just information and vibrating air molecules. good luck with stopping people from recording/digitizing/sharing.

(i'm playing devils advocate, don't be too hard on me lol)

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Last edited by phlog on Jan-29-2008 at 01:15

it is wrong but i would rather be a dj touring the world having thousands and thousands of fans and make a very very nice living then have a desk job the rest of my life so his threat of not making music and dj'ing is pretty lame.

While I defintely don't agree with stealing music, Steve Angello defintely doesn't make a good argument against it.

quote:

Originally posted by phlog dude, there are plenty of producers making lots of money. at the same time there are people who work a hell of alot harder and get paid pennies. sometimes life just isn't fair. times have changed and the industry eventually will too. this isn't justification for stealing, it's just a fact. besides i think someone mentioned already that many producers are now dj'ing because producing just isn't as profitable. they have adapted in order to make more money from their art. that's what this is all about, making more money. maybe part of the problem is that many of us have put artists on such high pedestals that their product became overvalued. now that information is so easily accessible/shared the true value is being revealed...? after all, in essence music is just information and vibrating air molecules. good luck with stopping people from recording/digitizing/sharing. (i'm playing devils advocate, don't be to hard on me lol)

You don't seem to get it, my comment was strictly about the justification aspect. I'm far from in denial about the industry, in fact I dare say I know more about it than most other artists.

In any case, DJing isn't adapting, it's adding - and it's not something that every artist wants to or is capable of doing. Producing generally takes more talent and effort than DJing does too, so why has it become so devalued? The issue isn't that people put artists on pedestals; in fact if that was the case, people would stop making justifications for stealing. It's like a person being religious and not praying.

As I've said several times, I'm not out to stop people from downloading - I don't see it happening any time soon. The only thing I'd really care to stop people from is making ridiculous justifications for things that are absolutely illegal and immoral. That's about it.

just throwing a question out there...

how do you think musicians made money before they were able to record and sell their music as physical product(8 track, vinyl cassette, cd)?

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speaking of downloading music for free

http://www.qtrax.com/

new service to download 25000000 tracks for free legally.
launching soon

"Qtrax is the world’s first free and legal peer-to-peer (P2P) digital music site. Music lovers can discover new music and legally download full-length, high-quality versions of their favorite songs while compensating both the artists and the record labels through non-intrusive and relevant advertising. Qtrax has the unparalleled support of the major record labels and all of their respective publishing divisions. Qtrax and its components are developed by LTDnetwork Inc. a division of Brilliant Technologies Corporation."

quote:

Originally posted by phlog just throwing a question out there... how do you think musicians made money before they were able to record and sell their music as physical product(8 track, cassette, cd)?

live performances, I suppose....although people have been able to record music for quite some time.

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper live performances, I suppose....although people have been able to record music for quite some time.

and mass produce/profit..?

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quote:

Originally posted by geroin speaking of downloading music for free http://www.qtrax.com/ new service to download 25000000 tracks for free legally. launching soon "Qtrax is the world’s first free and legal peer-to-peer (P2P) digital music site. Music lovers can discover new music and legally download full-length, high-quality versions of their favorite songs while compensating both the artists and the record labels through non-intrusive and relevant advertising. Qtrax has the unparalleled support of the major record labels and all of their respective publishing divisions. Qtrax and its components are developed by LTDnetwork Inc. a division of Brilliant Technologies Corporation."

From the legal disclaimer:

quote:

In the mean time, however, we expect all users of Qtrax to comply with applicable laws, to respect the moral and legal rights of copyright authors and owners, and to use the Gnutella network in a responsible and law abiding way. While ideas are not fully protectable (only the expression of ideas), users who do share their own ideas with others expect others not to steal their protected works. THEREFORE, DO NOT STEAL FILE TYPES WHICH YOU DO NOT HAVE A LAWFUL RIGHT TO OWN OR USE. IF YOU FEEL YOU CANNOT COMPLY WITH THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS, DO NOT USE Qtrax OR ANY OF OUR SERVICES. In summary, Qtrax is provided for personal use only. You agree to use Qtrax legally. Any illegal and unauthorized commercial use of Qtrax, or the resale of its software and services, is expressly prohibited.

Sounds like the same old story to me. "We're giving you the network, what you do with it is your responsibility".

That said, I looked up some articles, it seems like there's some legitimate aspect to it; I'm curious how it will work.

Last edited by Shade on Jan-29-2008 at 01:43

quote:

Originally posted by Shade The only thing I'd really care to stop people from is making ridiculous justifications for things that are absolutely illegal and immoral. That's about it.

and as i've said several times, i'm not attempting to justify piracy.

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quote:

Originally posted by phlog and as i've said several times, i'm not attempting to justify piracy.

I realize that, but quoting me and replying with these comments makes it seem like that's what I spoke about. We're not speaking about the same thing.

In response to your question about before mass production of vinyl or any other form, there wasn't mass distribution either, people stayed (relatively) local. Not only that, but there was generally a distinction to be made between the person who composed the music and the people who played it. The composer would still be there at live concerts (and would still be working), but it's a far cry from the same story when things are so publicly accessible.

Edit: People also wouldn't have been able to listen to things whenever they wanted to, your question doesn't really bear much (if any) relevance.

quote:

Originally posted by phlog just throwing a question out there... how do you think musicians made money before they were able to record and sell their music as physical product(8 track, vinyl cassette, cd)?

umm... you mean in like the 1880?

because that's when cylinder phonographs started becoming popular... or maybe you mean before flat discs came out? so pre 1915?


lol