I'm still holding out belief that McCain is fully aware of where he is headed, doesn't plan to win and is working to tank his campaign for the good of the country. Sacrificing his own name to see his current base doesn't retain power and doom the country. Now that would be the work of a true patriot. Either that or he has actually done a 180 on all his principles and become bedfellows with the very people he used to despise.

quote:

Originally posted by Groundhog Boy You fail to realize that conservatism isn't really the driving force behind the GOP anymore. Maybe being more blunt will help you comprehend (but I doubt it): That's the reason why conservative intellectuals are defecting, it's not because they're moderates. The reason you're in this situation is because the Republican party is a big tent party. But it didn't water down conservatism - it made it irrelevant because most of the people under the tent, like yourself, are too stupid to understand the concepts. You might see Democrats supporting welfare government programs and trying to help those who aren't very well-off in society. That said, Democrats don't instantaneously try to promote these people to the head of the government and tout them as the models that we base the American dream on. They try to give them opportunities to advance themselves so that one day, maybe that will be an option, if not for them, their children.

Too stupid huh? lol... again with the personal attacks. I never said conservativism was the driving force behind the republican party anymore... my point is that's the problem; those that are defecting are not true conservatives.

You're not reading between the lines... the GOP is watered down BECAUSE it was trying to be all inclusive and that's not how conservatism works. Conservatism is what it is. It doesn't need to be moderated. It doesn't need to be redefined. It doesn't need to be upgraded.

Liberal Democrats have gotten away so long as being the caring party; they're the party that cares about the downtrodden. Liberalism has created the downtrodden and the unhappy and the miserable, and then the liberals set themselves up as their champions, say, "Only we can fix them because only we care." They don't care. Real compassion is conservatism, which promotes the individual and allows them to be the maters of their own destiny. Real conservatism wants every individual to be the best he or she can be, with nobody standing in the way.

Let a person use what their god-given talents are, combined with their ambition and their desire and their dreams, and get out of their way. We want people to amount to the most they want to be and can be. That's a much better recipe for success than massive government sponsored entitlement programs. Now,for those who have a legitimate problem that prevents them from succeeding, we (conservatives) are all for taking care of those people. But we do not want to take normal, healthy Americans and turn them into wards of the state or dependents. We don't want to look at them with arrogant condescension and say, "You're not part of the smart group... you need us to tell you where your money is going to go, where your kids can go to school, how your mortgage will be set, what you can and can't do... etc." We just don't look at people that way. You talk about hope? We hope for this country to be the best country it can be and you need the best individuals for that to happen. Time and time again, it's proven in the private sector with innovation and much more success than the govt. can do. Conservatism is about the individual. Liberalism doesn't care about the individual, just the groups... get it strait.

Like I'm going to let some brainwashed liberal loser convince me, a conservative, that I don't understand what conservatism means. I actually feel sorry for you that you believe so religiously in liberalism. When you're all growns up and have real responsibility to face in life, like running a business and signing the front of the check, maybe you're childish perspective will change. Or maybe it won't... I wouldn't bet on it.

Palin 2012?

quote:

A second McCain source tells CNN she appears to now be looking out for herself more than the McCain campaign. “She is a diva. She takes no advice from anyone,” said this McCain adviser, “she does not have any relationships of trust with any of us, her family or anyone else. Also she is playing for her own future and sees herself as the next leader of the party. Remember: divas trust only unto themselves as they see themselves as the beginning and end of all wisdom.”

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/25/mccain-aide-palin-going-rogue/

A little gem from Andrew Sullivan (conservative Obama supporter):

quote:

"In the final days of the campaign we are not going to indulge bloggers," - Tracey Schmitt, Palin spokesperson. Or reporters like Ben Smith. One question: why is Palin in Iowa today, currently with a deep blue color on all the electoral maps, if not to start her campaign for 2012?

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.c...-for-th-28.html

If you think you can take your party back, you better start quick.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov And the leader of your party has presided over the largest expansion of federal government since... well, Ronald Reagan. As Opus points out, the modern Republican party is no friend of personal liberty - why do you think the real conservatives are all bailing after Sarah Palin declared the Vice President capable of influencing legislation?

I agree with you to a point about something here... I am NOT a fan of Bush, and I hate how he has gone against everything conservative. I'm not in the least bit supportive of his massive expanision and spending tactics... he's part of the problem.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss Too stupid huh? lol... again with the personal attacks. I never said conservativism was the driving force behind the republican party anymore... my point is that's the problem; those that are defecting are not true conservatives. You're not reading between the lines... the GOP is watered down BECAUSE it was trying to be all inclusive and that's not how conservatism works. Conservatism is what it is. It doesn't need to be moderated. It doesn't need to be redefined. It doesn't need to be upgraded. Liberal Democrats have gotten away so long as being the caring party; they're the party that cares about the downtrodden. Liberalism has created the downtrodden and the unhappy and the miserable, and then the liberals set themselves up as their champions, say, "Only we can fix them because only we care." They don't care. Real compassion is conservatism, which promotes the individual and allows them to be the maters of their own destiny. Real conservatism wants every individual to be the best he or she can be, with nobody standing in the way. Let a person use what their god-given talents are, combined with their ambition and their desire and their dreams, and get out of their way. We want people to amount to the most they want to be and can be. That's a much better recipe for success than massive government sponsored entitlement programs. Now,for those who have a legitimate problem that prevents them from succeeding, we (conservatives) are all for taking care of those people. But we do not want to take normal, healthy Americans and turn them into wards of the state or dependents. We don't want to look at them with arrogant condescension and say, "You're not part of the smart group... you need us to tell you where your money is going to go, where your kids can go to school, how your mortgage will be set, what you can and can't do... etc." We just don't look at people that way. You talk about hope? We hope for this country to be the best country it can be and you need the best individuals for that to happen. Time and time again, it's proven in the private sector with innovation and much more success than the govt. can do. Conservatism is about the individual. Liberalism doesn't care about the individual, just the groups... get it strait. Like I'm going to let some brainwashed liberal loser convince me, a conservative, that I don't understand what conservatism means. I actually feel sorry for you that you believe so religiously in liberalism. When you're all growns up and have real responsibility to face in life, like running a business and signing the front of the check, maybe you're childish perspective will change. Or maybe it won't... I wouldn't bet on it.

THIS!!

I was beginning to believe that I was the only one this board that actually had these values...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss I agree with you to a point about something here... I am NOT a fan of Bush, and I hate how he has gone against everything conservative. I'm not in the least bit supportive of his massive expanision and spending tactics... he's part of the problem.

I think this is something we can all agree with - Bush is an anomaly...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss Too stupid huh? lol... again with the personal attacks. I never said conservativism was the driving force behind the republican party anymore... my point is that's the problem; those that are defecting are not true conservatives. You're not reading between the lines... the GOP is watered down BECAUSE it was trying to be all inclusive and that's not how conservatism works. Conservatism is what it is. It doesn't need to be moderated. It doesn't need to be redefined. It doesn't need to be upgraded. Liberal Democrats have gotten away so long as being the caring party; they're the party that cares about the downtrodden. Liberalism has created the downtrodden and the unhappy and the miserable, and then the liberals set themselves up as their champions, say, "Only we can fix them because only we care." They don't care. Real compassion is conservatism, which promotes the individual and allows them to be the maters of their own destiny. Real conservatism wants every individual to be the best he or she can be, with nobody standing in the way. Let a person use what their god-given talents are, combined with their ambition and their desire and their dreams, and get out of their way. We want people to amount to the most they want to be and can be. That's a much better recipe for success than massive government sponsored entitlement programs. Now,for those who have a legitimate problem that prevents them from succeeding, we (conservatives) are all for taking care of those people. But we do not want to take normal, healthy Americans and turn them into wards of the state or dependents. We don't want to look at them with arrogant condescension and say, "You're not part of the smart group... you need us to tell you where your money is going to go, where your kids can go to school, how your mortgage will be set, what you can and can't do... etc." We just don't look at people that way. You talk about hope? We hope for this country to be the best country it can be and you need the best individuals for that to happen. Time and time again, it's proven in the private sector with innovation and much more success than the govt. can do. Conservatism is about the individual. Liberalism doesn't care about the individual, just the groups... get it strait. Like I'm going to let some brainwashed liberal loser convince me, a conservative, that I don't understand what conservatism means. I actually feel sorry for you that you believe so religiously in liberalism. When you're all growns up and have real responsibility to face in life, like running a business and signing the front of the check, maybe you're childish perspective will change. Or maybe it won't... I wouldn't bet on it.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but conservatism isn't the end all be all point of view, neither is liberalism. If the Republican Party, as you say, panders only to "true conservatives" (whatever that means), then they will lose every election. What are "true conservatives"? Are they really about individualism? The fact is, "true conservatives" are authoritarians and their followers. As Bill O'Reilly so eloquantly put it...

quote:

"Once the war against Saddam Hussein begins, we expect every American to support our military, and if you can't do that, just shut up. Americans, and indeed our foreign allies who actively work against our military once the war is underway, will be considered enemies of the state by me." -- Bill O'Reilly, The O'Reilly Factor, 2/26/03

Yea, individualism, MY ASS...SHUT UP AND OBEY......Who is it defending civil liberties against authoritarians within our government. It sure ain't the Republicans......A "true conservative", in the context your using it, follows orders like a good Republican. Doesn't question authority. Always believes they are under attack. No wonder the Republican Party is disintegrating in front of our very eyes. Frankly, as a registered Republican, I'm glad. If they can't stick to their fundamental principles, low taxes WITH low expenditures, then to hell with them.

___________________

I feel sorry for all these frustrated liberals... that at the end if Obama wins, their president is going to careless about them.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton College tuition should be free, so should healthcare.

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Excellent. I look forward to hearing your voice joining mine and many others in voicing dissent with this Administration (and admittedly, with the capitulation of the Congressional Democrats) for illegally wiretapping Americans. I also look forward to hearing your voice for a woman's right to choose what she can and cannot do with her body. Oh wait, just not some individual freedoms, I guess, like those, right? How funny of you to even hint at how Reagan ran his government below when you state this. Small-state my ass.

That's a lot to get into, and you have some good points. You can't forget about the disaster Regan walked into... 12% inflation, 21% interest rates. Put your 10% unemployment rate figure in perspective please... it peaked in 1982 during that recession, but quickly changed and went down throughout the next 6 years. Inflation significantly decreased, and his administration created between 16-20 million jobs while he was in office.

BTW, I'm all for voicing dissention towards things done during the Bush administration. No problem. The issue about abortion, for me personally, is the one thing I buck the trend on... because I do support the woman's right to choose. But to make the point from the conservative side, the reasoning is simple and can also be respected: as I said before, conservatism stands for "life, liberty, pursuit of happiness." Without life, there is nothing else here, and if we're going to sit around indiscriminately deciding who lives and who dies based on our own convenience, that's not conservative. The essence of innocence is a child in the womb who has no choice over what happens to it. If conservatives don't stand up for that person, if the government won't, then nobody will.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss Too stupid huh? lol... again with the personal attacks. I never said conservativism was the driving force behind the republican party anymore... my point is that's the problem; those that are defecting are not true conservatives. You're not reading between the lines... the GOP is watered down BECAUSE it was trying to be all inclusive and that's not how conservatism works. Conservatism is what it is. It doesn't need to be moderated. It doesn't need to be redefined. It doesn't need to be upgraded. Liberal Democrats have gotten away so long as being the caring party; they're the party that cares about the downtrodden. Liberalism has created the downtrodden and the unhappy and the miserable, and then the liberals set themselves up as their champions, say, "Only we can fix them because only we care." They don't care. Real compassion is conservatism, which promotes the individual and allows them to be the maters of their own destiny. Real conservatism wants every individual to be the best he or she can be, with nobody standing in the way. Let a person use what their god-given talents are, combined with their ambition and their desire and their dreams, and get out of their way. We want people to amount to the most they want to be and can be. That's a much better recipe for success than massive government sponsored entitlement programs. Now,for those who have a legitimate problem that prevents them from succeeding, we (conservatives) are all for taking care of those people. But we do not want to take normal, healthy Americans and turn them into wards of the state or dependents. We don't want to look at them with arrogant condescension and say, "You're not part of the smart group... you need us to tell you where your money is going to go, where your kids can go to school, how your mortgage will be set, what you can and can't do... etc." We just don't look at people that way. You talk about hope? We hope for this country to be the best country it can be and you need the best individuals for that to happen. Time and time again, it's proven in the private sector with innovation and much more success than the govt. can do. Conservatism is about the individual. Liberalism doesn't care about the individual, just the groups... get it strait. Like I'm going to let some brainwashed liberal loser convince me, a conservative, that I don't understand what conservatism means. I actually feel sorry for you that you believe so religiously in liberalism. When you're all growns up and have real responsibility to face in life, like running a business and signing the front of the check, maybe you're childish perspective will change. Or maybe it won't... I wouldn't bet on it.

Calling a spade a spade is not a personal attack. Stop crying like a little bitch.

I'm far past trying to convince you. I'm just pointing out to everyone else how idiotic most of your rants are and expressing my complete lack of respect for any of your ideas. I mean, for one thing, you consider me to be this extremist liberal who supports a complete nanny state, which couldn't be further from the truth.

___________________
"Go back to bed america your government is in control
Here's American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it,
Watch these picturary retards bang their fuckin' skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom,
Here you go America you are free to do as we tell you
We want your soul
Your cash, your house, your phone, your cash, your house, your life" -Adam Freeland - We Want Your Soul

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r THIS!! I was beginning to believe that I was the only one this board that actually had these values...

Nah... you're not alone dude. There are a few of us around here...lol.

Krypton, I'll get back to you later... I gotta get off line for a bit

quote:

Originally posted by Groundhog Boy Calling a spade a spade is not a personal attack. Stop crying like a little bitch. I'm far past trying to convince you. I'm just pointing out to everyone else how idiotic most of your rants are and expressing my complete lack of respect for any of your ideas. I mean, for one thing, you consider me to be this extremist liberal who supports a complete nanny state, which couldn't be further from the truth.

Your lack of intelligence is the best proof of the Obama indoctrination. Save yourself.... changing to the GOP is your only salvation.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton College tuition should be free, so should healthcare.